Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

It's like that scene from the Simpsons where Homer just keeps on getting electrocuted ....

Originally Posted by rick130

I don't buy that.

Big brakes make a difference in ultimate retardation and handle thermal stress better (more mass) but from a traction control tuning POV I can't see what difference a 300mm rotor vs whatever the D4 has will make much of a difference.
From what most have said Tdci just doesn't have as sophisticated TC as the D4 and it'd probably be something as simple as the D4's TC works better, or can be tuned better in concert with an automatic transmission vs the Defender's manual g/box.

Neither do I, a diesel D3 can run 17's easy and that gives you a great selection of off road tyres. My memory might be failing me on this but from what I remember the main reason late model D4's have to run 19's is because the callipers have a different shape which stops standard OEM 18's from fitting.

My guess is this is a decision by LR to stop punters retro fitting 18's with decent sized off road tyres on them. If correct then it's to try and stop punters doing serious off roading with them because they are stuck on 19's which has very limited selections in off road tyres.

Gordon may know better than I on this but from conversations I have had with a number of people in the industry they reckon that LR (UK) is pretty shocked at some of the things we put Disco's through in Australia.
A good example for comparison in usage is each year the D3UK forum put out a calendar with happy snaps taken by members enjoying their Disco's. You get a few of them being green laned in a bit of mud and a couple of them parked in a desert shot in Morroco or some where like that, most are parked in the countryside looking pretty, then each year you get the Aussie photo's of the things being bashed to within a inch of their life in the bush or some rock garden.

While LR have built extremely useful off road tools in the D3/4 it would seem to me that they would be far happier if we didn't actually use them for the purpose they are designed for.

Originally Posted by LandyAndy

Found one of Gordon in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZqHhccPkA
Andrew

Straight after a defender, no less. (I think its a td5 tho, not a puma)

Cheers

Dan

Originally Posted by manic

Is the latest puma TC no good?

it is rudimentary at best compared to the D3/D4/RRS. In the High Country I had the drivers front wheel around 2' in the air and spinning when the TC grabbed it so hard it broke the diff. It happened too quick for me to be able to throttle off. Also re the comment about the Disco's TC pounding the brakes - how do you think the Deefers TC works? And in a much more uncontrolled fashion. As for opening the doors and letting the water through - the electrics under the drivers seat in the Deefer wouild not like it

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

So, that was a standard off the show room floor as delivered D4?
The Jeeps did ok too.
Got footage of the late model Puma Defender going through the same course?

Was a D3 Mick,yep brand new at the time,had a bar and winch added.Shame the videos I had seem to be eaten up by cyberspace,I have uploaded comp videos of that D3 in the past.
Andrew

Originally Posted by Marty110

it is rudimentary at best compared to the D3/D4/RRS. In the High Country I had the drivers front wheel around 2' in the air and spinning when the TC grabbed it so hard it broke the diff. It happened too quick for me to be able to throttle off. Also re the comment about the Disco's TC pounding the brakes - how do you think the Deefers TC works? And in a much more uncontrolled fashion. As for opening the doors and letting the water through - the electrics under the drivers seat in the Deefer wouild not like it

That doesn't say much about the defender diffs either, does it?

Cheers

Dan

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

That doesn't say much about the defender diffs either, does it?

Cheers

Dan

the rover rear diff introduced to the Puma Deefer was a let down, I fixed this by fitting an ARB locker. The front diffs have always been problematic, I fixed mine in my 300Tdi by having a mate make a 4 pinion centre for me. Sold the Puma before needing to do this. There have been a lot of Puma model Deefer diffs replaced under warranty according to mate in LR workshop...

A note re reliability too. In 3 years of ownership of my Puma Deefer it was on a flat bed twice and on the side of the track until I could fix it twice more. In 3 years of RRS it has been on a flat bed 0 and on the side of the road a further 0. I know the RRS is not a Disco but its on a Disco chasis just running a V8 Diesel instead of a 6.... also touching wood on the RRS comment...... I also acknowledge that there is a lot of variation in reliability within models runs too - I consider I have had good ones. Also always service every 10,oookm and always do proactive work to avoid breakdowns as I rely on my vehicles for work which has always been travelling to the 'bush' - never want to let down a client if I could help it.

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

That doesn't say much about the defender diffs either, does it?

Cheers

Dan

The front CWP and entire front end is the same as your old D1.
Shock load anything and there is a point at which it will fail sooner rather than later.
Personally I'm surprised it wasn't the weak as **** 32 spline outer axle ends or a CV.

But we've already been down this road, a lot of us aren't that impressed with some of Land Rover's engineering and material choices in certain areas but like anything man made, it's a compromise.