Won’t be retro...

I agree BR mr Cameron was honest about reliability in the past but he is pulling legs to suggest wholesale changes in reliability overall...

Despite LR upping its game it still does terribly in the annual JD Powers surveys
Of course we could debate the validity BUT reliability surveys effect the market???

The big thing Mr Cameron ignored is LR won’t make inroads in Aus till they sharpen up their dealer network. Maybe the LR2020 will be the golden goose for LR Aus and huge sales lead to a better dealer network ????

In any case - if they sell 350 Rangie Sports a month, Likely they are aiming for that number of LR2020s???

Do you know how many D5s are selling???

S

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

I agree BR mr Cameron was honest about reliability in the past but he is pulling legs to suggest wholesale changes in reliability overall...

Despite LR upping its game it still does terribly in the annual JD Powers surveys
Of course we could debate the validity BUT reliability surveys effect the market???

The big thing Mr Cameron ignored is LR won’t make inroads in Aus till they sharpen up their dealer network. Maybe the LR2020 will be the golden goose for LR Aus and huge sales lead to a better dealer network ????

In any case - if they sell 350 Rangie Sports a month, Likely they are aiming for that number of LR2020s???

Do you know how many D5s are selling???

S

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I believe most issues these days are minor and reliability surveys include minor things like infotainment recalls, these will be done over the air (im guessing from 2020 onwards) Mercedes benz is rated worse from memory and they sell like hotcakes.

I think they sell around half the amount of D5s as RRS from memory, that should improve as their rep gets out more.

D4s didn't sell like hotcakes either but slightly more than D5s

Imo they will be aiming for sales like the Disco sport at least with the New Defender.

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

As above they are talking about global sales numbers, its quite obvious, either way it isnt a direct quote so best taken with a grain of salt.

If you also add in the comment about them wanting it to be one of their best sellers, Disco sport at around 60-70k sell over 100, 000 per year.

Marketing is marketing, i actually think his comments on reliability where honest, took ownership of past realities and addressed how they are now different and how they will prove it. I pay this comment, the unprecidented extensive testing seems to back this up.

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But is it unprecedented at 1.2m miles? D5 was over a million miles and I recall D2 was along those lines also (For a car already heavily 'tested' as a D1 because changes there were just that, not a whole new design). They took new Deefer off-road all over the world...same with D2. Testing the Defender at Moab does not make the testing more extensive than D2 or D5...

Reliability comes from a whole lot more than mule and final testing. When people get upset about modern LR reliability they are talking not of the software glitches where the iPhone may not pair properly each time but things like notorious failures of auto trans and diesels that can't hold their cranks/bearings together. Ie major catastrophic failures that leave vehicles stranded and often write them off with the cost of repair. A design that requires the whole body to be removed to replace a turbo doesn't generate enthusiasm either... Genuinely address those things and most people will overlook a lack of.dealer.support. They still won't sell in the outback because most owners know that modern vehicles do need to be close to dealers at times for software issues and diagnostics.

Cheers
PS. I am hopeful that a straight 6 petrol will have the room available to replace a turbo without the need to remove the body...at least down the track us knuckledraggers can do some mechanical work on them

The new Slovakia factory could be a game changer for Land Rover both in terms of price and QA.

This new model Defender also presents an opportunity for JLR to reach into the trade and more effectively into family/recreational market segments, if they get it right on price point. No doubt JLR have intensely examined price point vs market segment.

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

Well I do a bit of long distance and outback driving and I have not seen one pulling a van yet. Incredible. In fact I haven't seen a newer Discovery than a D4 out in the bush. I did not see a Land Rover product out around the floodwaters a few months ago.

Might be interesting to see what turns up at the Big Red Bash.

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Found this on another forum I frequenthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9673b26307.jpg

I thought that I read somewhere that the D5 has been a sales flop compared to the last year of the D4.

As for D5’s in action - Lee Jackson on this forum has a very well kitted out D5 and uses it regularly.

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Originally Posted by grey_ghost

I thought that I read somewhere that the D5 has been a sales flop compared to the last year of the D4.

As for D5’s in action - Lee Jackson on this forum has a very well kitted out D5 and uses it regularly.

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True. I think the D5 is probably underrated. Overall I quite like it but it's too expensive for my tastes - as in value for money is just not there.

But overall I haven seen them outside the urban blacktop. Shame really.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

But is it unprecedented at 1.2m miles? D5 was over a million miles and I recall D2 was along those lines also (For a car already heavily 'tested' as a D1 because changes there were just that, not a whole new design). They took new Deefer off-road all over the world...same with D2. Testing the Defender at Moab does not make the testing more extensive than D2 or D5...

Reliability comes from a whole lot more than mule and final testing. When people get upset about modern LR reliability they are talking not of the software glitches where the iPhone may not pair properly each time but things like notorious failures of auto trans and diesels that can't hold their cranks/bearings together. Ie major catastrophic failures that leave vehicles stranded and often write them off with the cost of repair. A design that requires the whole body to be removed to replace a turbo doesn't generate enthusiasm either... Genuinely address those things and most people will overlook a lack of.dealer.support. They still won't sell in the outback because most owners know that modern vehicles do need to be close to dealers at times for software issues and diagnostics.

Cheers
PS. I am hopeful that a straight 6 petrol will have the room available to replace a turbo without the need to remove the body...at least down the track us knuckledraggers can do some mechanical work on them

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Agree totally on testing and reliability - they are doing what they always do for every model. Though, I do get the sense that they are well aware of the importance of getting this one absolutely right and are doing everything they can to ensure it is.

You can rest easy as body off is a thing of the past... the D4 was the last thing Land Rover made that had a chassis. The new models may need a subframe dropped instead[tonguewink]

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Originally Posted by ozscott

True. I think the D5 is probably underrated. Overall I quite like it but it's too expensive for my tastes - as in value for money is just not there.

But overall I haven seen them outside the urban blacktop. Shame really.

Cheers

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I saw a D5 with a small van up at Monkey Mia (Sharks Bay WA) a couple of days ago when I went up there for a fishing trip So there are some that are getting away from their Metro sanctuary's [thumbsupbig]

However the Vast majority of van/boat tugs I saw on the road were of Japanese origin[bigwhistle]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozscott

But is it unprecedented at 1.2m miles? D5 was over a million miles and I recall D2 was along those lines also (For a car already heavily 'tested' as a D1 because changes there were just that, not a whole new design). They took new Deefer off-road all over the world...same with D2. Testing the Defender at Moab does not make the testing more extensive than D2 or D5...

Reliability comes from a whole lot more than mule and final testing. When people get upset about modern LR reliability they are talking not of the software glitches where the iPhone may not pair properly each time but things like notorious failures of auto trans and diesels that can't hold their cranks/bearings together. Ie major catastrophic failures that leave vehicles stranded and often write them off with the cost of repair. A design that requires the whole body to be removed to replace a turbo doesn't generate enthusiasm either... Genuinely address those things and most people will overlook a lack of.dealer.support. They still won't sell in the outback because most owners know that modern vehicles do need to be close to dealers at times for software issues and diagnostics.

Cheers
PS. I am hopeful that a straight 6 petrol will have the room available to replace a turbo without the need to remove the body...at least down the track us knuckledraggers can do some mechanical work on them

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Largely agree with most of what you have said, however they are not done yet, they are still going, spy shots keep popping up all over the world, I don't remember this amount of vehicles being sent all over the world for this long by any manufacturer let alone LR, maybe we are just paying more attention to it [emoji6][emoji23]

We have looked into the inhouse testing they do these days on this thread and even for the evoque its downright impressive. Certainly would have come a long way since D1 testing days.

YouTube

I would say with their latest gen of vehicles right across the board they have markedly upped their reliability and quality game.

When you look at the issues other manufactures have with their engines and gearboxes etc, It would be fair to say LR are comparatively doing very well..I stand by my comments that it seems these days the recalls (Generally) are for minor issues.

We have all copped it from the cruiser and Nissan boys over the years and no doubt LR head office coped it the most. For me im very proud LR are finally "becoming" a reliable brand. [emoji898] And I agree with the comments of the LR AU guy, it will take time to prove in reality, but taking ownership admitting you had a problem and doing something about it is massive.

Engines, gearboxs, sir susp electronics and body all appear to be well engineered and reliable these days especialy compared to the P38 days [emoji2961].(no disrespect to those that love them)

I would say from L405 L494 etc onwards LR have significantly upped their game.

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Nick Rogers, Executive Director Product Engineering, Jaguar Land Rover, said:

“In addition to the extensive simulation and rig testing, we’ve driven new Defender 1.2 million kilometres across all terrains and in extreme climates to ensure that it is the toughest and most capable Land Rover ever made. The incredible opportunity to put it to the test in the field, supporting operations at the Borana Conservancy in Kenya, with Tusk, will allow our engineers to verify that we are meeting this target as we enter the final phase of our development programme.”

By the time the new Defender makes its public debut later this year, JLR reckons it will have passed more than 45,000 individual tests "in some of the most extreme environments on earth".

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Ingenium engines have been subject to two-million miles of real-world testing and 72,000 hours of dyno testing – that's eight years of worst-case scenario operating conditions.

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I'm extremely confident in the new defender both because of how comparitivly reliable LR's are now (what they have learnt) and the extensive in factory testing and real world testing they are currently doing before a major release.

As reliability is proven, more and more people will purchase and LR service/sales will open further and further out within multibrand dealers as has already been discussed on this thread.