Won’t be retro...

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Originally Posted by Homestar

The Range Rover was always built to the best tech and spec possible throughout its life and never pretended to be otherwise. The Defender being a new iteration of the series Land Rovers was a rugged and utilitarian for working types. Can’t see the new Deefer meeting this brief based on what we’ve seen. Like the new Disco being a flop because it didn’t follow the ethos of what a Disco was, this looks like it is heading the same way.

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But won't, in practice, "rugged and utilitarian" simply mean vinyl seats and rubber mats?

I can remember when people complained about coil springs and permanent 4WD - which are now considered a key part of the Land Rover ethos.

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

But won't, in practice, "rugged and utilitarian" simply mean vinyl seats and rubber mats?

I can remember when people complained about coil springs and permanent 4WD - which are now considered a key part of the Land Rover ethos.

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No, much more than that - ability to repair at home without the stealer needing to work on it, parts availability the same, easy to service, etc. LR are one of the worst offenders regarding service information on their modern vehicles - will be interesting to see what ‘right of repair’ laws bring to the USA about supplying such info. Not everyone wants to (or can) drive to the dealer every time it needs a service, makes a ‘bong’ noise it shouldn’t or throw a fault code. LR are locking down their vehicles so third party repairs can’t even work on them, so you pay your money but it’s not really your car when it needs any work doing on it.

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Originally Posted by AK83

I think this attitude misses the point of the article.

Read it again.
Same was said of the first coilers in the mid 80's Those new fangled sissy specced 90's, 110's and 130's .. coils were supposedly going to ruin the great series Landrovers.

History showed us it's the coils that made it great!

Folks denigrating a product before it's released don't really know what they're talking about.

Give it a chance before you condemn it!

Why isn't it a defender?

What makes a Range Rover a Range Rover?
People have no got used to it having air suspension. Got used to it now having independent suspension.
Is it any less a Range Rover .. or the Disco now being a legit Disco?

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Except the 90/110/130 were still working vehicles.

This new iteration is the successor to the D4, it's not a commercial vehicle and probably shouldn't be called Defender, but that's a marketing decision.

Note that those who are excited about the new Deefer are either ex or current D3/4 owners, by and large not previous Defender users who bought it because it is customisable and rugged. It's a meccano set on wheels. The new car will be a capable SUV and is aimed at a totally different market.

Big difference.

Haha. History repeats. Same was said about series vehicles compared to the both then the new Range Rover and 90/110/Defender vehicle’s.

Once heavy vehicles exclusively used leaf spring suspension and carby motors. Now I reckon the IS trucking industry would be dominated by vehicles with air suspension and engines with ECUs. Yet these are working vehicles.

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Originally Posted by rar110

Haha. History repeats. Same was said about series vehicles compared to the both then the new Range Rover and 90/110/Defender vehicle’s.

Once heavy vehicles exclusively used leaf spring suspension and carby motors. Now I reckon the IS trucking industry would be dominated by vehicles with air suspension and engines with ECUs. Yet these are working vehicles.

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Yeah, but you can still repair them easily at any repair shop - Truck engine OEM’s share (at a cost) engine info and access to software, etc. Go ask an LR dealer for a software licence for a new LR - you’d be laughed out of the building.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Yeah, but you can still repair them easily at any repair shop - Truck engine OEM’s share (at a cost) engine info and access to software, etc. Go ask an LR dealer for a software licence for a new LR - you’d be laughed out of the building.

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I just plug in my IID tool to find out what’s the issue. Then fix it myself. It’s just another tool.

I’ve only taken my LRs to a stealer for a free recall fix.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Except the 90/110/130 were still working vehicles.

This new iteration is the successor to the D4, it's not a commercial vehicle .

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What if, like with the D4 in the UK, there actually is a commercial model?

I'm also not 100% convinced that all Defenders were hardcore working vehicles - I saw one today with a lot of leather and carpet .... ergonomics were still *&**^ though.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

No, much more than that - ability to repair at home without the stealer needing to work on it, parts availability the same, easy to service, etc. LR are one of the worst offenders regarding service information on their modern vehicles - will be interesting to see what ‘right of repair’ laws bring to the USA about supplying such info. Not everyone wants to (or can) drive to the dealer every time it needs a service, makes a ‘bong’ noise it shouldn’t or throw a fault code. LR are locking down their vehicles so third party repairs can’t even work on them, so you pay your money but it’s not really your car when it needs any work doing on it.

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I don't think thats 100% correct,but then i stand to be corrected[biggrin]

I go to an Indie,they don't seem to have any trouble at all repairing the latest LR's.

In fact,on another topic,they also seem to have more commonly used parts on the shelf than the local stealers.

Now where is JC when we need him,he will know what there is access to.

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Originally Posted by rar110

I just plug in my IID tool to find out what’s the issue. Then fix it myself. It’s just another tool.

I’ve only taken my LRs to a stealer for a free recall fix.

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Originally Posted by scarry

I don't think thats 100% correct,but then i stand to be corrected[biggrin]

I go to an Indie,they don't seem to have any trouble at all repairing the latest LR's.

In fact,on another topic,they also seem to have more commonly used parts on the shelf than the local stealers.

Now where is JC when we need him,he will know what there is access to.

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It won’t be long before they complete locking down both service histories and diagnostics - there are quite a few OEM’s heading this way. Once the service history in the vehicles ECU an Indy can’t service it and record the service so your warranty will be void (That’s what they’ll want you to believe and most will although in Australia consumer law does protect from this in some way shape or form) - it’s already like this on some higher end euro cars. It’s what the right of repair legislation is trying to overturn in the USA. Legislation and legal action will stop this at some point but they’ll get their pound of flesh from owners in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

It won’t be long before they complete locking down both service histories and diagnostics - there are quite a few OEM’s heading this way. Once the service history in the vehicles ECU an Indy can’t service it and record the service so your warranty will be void (That’s what they’ll want you to believe and most will although in Australia consumer law does protect from this in some way shape or form) - it’s already like this on some higher end euro cars. It’s what the right of repair legislation is trying to overturn in the USA. Legislation and legal action will stop this at some point but they’ll get their pound of flesh from owners in the meantime.

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Ha. I always buy used. My next purchase will be around 2027, so hopefully will be able to consider a well sorted used new Defender or maybe a good used L405.