Thread: Won’t be retro...

The new Defender has just been released!!

Critics of Land Rover's Defender design should reserve judgment

Its amazing what happens in 24hrs, jokes..it is however a good article on reserving judgment until its actually realeased and why she couldnt be retro.Very well said actually.

I just hope they offer a "bare-bones" model. One with only the electronic stuff necessary to meet legislation, and aimed at the custom builder for expedition or overland stuff. Also as a base for work vehicles (service trucks, firefighting, etc).
The Toorak tractor market is already overserviced. Offer a serious competitor to the 79 series, and the world should beat a path to your door.

Regarding 800km hybrids.. how far on pure battery, and how far on fuel? It makes a big difference.

If the new defender is on an mla platform where you may not be able to fit a bigger/aditional fuel tank, you would hope for 1000km on fuel.

The problem with pure EV at the moment, is the lithium battery pack weighs about 700-800kg for 100kw (~400km range).

If you want a 800km range defender on batteries alone you could be looking at over 1.5 ton of battery. How much payload will you be left with, how much weight saving will be required in the frame/chassis?

The teslas are the current cutting edge. I can tell you the model x is much wider than the current defender, and weighs more at around 2.4ton. Its wider because of the flat low down battery pack. Its crazy wide. But it has to be to fit the range. 400km!

The body/frame is aluminium and built to claw back some weight savings. It would crumble offroad. The defender will not be able to build as light or as wide. Well it could be as wide, like hummer wide!

You would have to more than double the energy density in lithium to acheive 800km in a 800kg lithium battery pack. How long will this take?

Yes battery tech is improving. But lithium batteries have been around a long time and energy density has a limit. We could be looking at 5% increase in energy density year on year. So we would need a leap in energy storage tech for a full ev defender that is fit for purpose. Unless you are buying one just to run about town and do the shopping!

Then you have the issues with lithium not performing well in high/low temperatures, performance and range will be reduced.

Then you have issues with supercharging and frequent 0-100% charge cycles, that rapidly erodes the batteries capacity.

The truth is, lithium battery vehicles can be a huge success because most people dont need more than 200km a day. And most people do not need a rugged 4x4. So why even bother building a 400km EV defender? It might sell as a status vehicle, bu no one needs it. It would serve no special purpose.

A low range EV defender is not for me. I will buy an EV for a run around but I wont be buying a defender to do the shopping!

Funny you should say that as I was looking at a Tesla Model X in the Carindale shopping centre yesterday. It is long and wide, but it's not really a SUV, despite being a seven-seater. Its more a five-door hatchback, I think.
From what I understand, hybrids can achieve 800 plus ks if they are driven in conditions with lots of regenerative braking to recharge the batteries, so they get their best range in urban areas, not on the open highway.
So I think hybrids will be a step towards full EV, as battery tech improves and prices fall.

Looks like the Ipace is allready winning against the Tesla

15% of all EV sales in 6months


Maybe the Ipace +velar + the huge savings the are initiating are already JLRs savior. The defender might not be as critical as we thought to JLRs as a whole's long term success, however as a halo brand to Land Rover yes it is critical.

New Jaguar I-Pace vs Tesla Model S | What Car?

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Looks like the Ipace is allready winning against the Tesla

15% of all EV sales in 6months


Maybe the Ipace +velar + the huge savings the are initiating are already JLRs savior. The defender might not be as critical as we thought to JLRs as a whole's long term success, however as a halo brand to Land Rover yes it is critical.

New Jaguar I-Pace vs Tesla Model S | What Car?

Going a bit off topic here, but they compared a 70kwh model s with a 90kwh ipace and still the range was similar. The model s has much better range per kwh, higher top speed, faster acceleration. Then there is the model S P100D, with ludicrous mode! No contest. No one can beat Teslas battery + drive unit package at the moment, they are well ahead. The model S is 6 years old!The model 3 will smash the ipace for EV sales.

Originally Posted by blackrangie;2881553

[URL="https://www.autonews.com/commentary/critics-new-defender-design-should-reserve-judgment"

Critics of Land Rover's Defender design should reserve judgment[/URL].

It’s nothing new. If we all just reserved our judgement there would be nothing to talk about. The author doesn’t reserve his judgement, but rather sits on the fence.

The article is a non-event, reviving the usual Defender cliches combined with stating the obvious about new Land Rover style cues. ...what it fails to mention is that for example the new G Wagen successfully achieves all of the above and looks virtually identical to the original.

The whole debate between retro and modern is just nonsense. It’s just a matter of good design.

i don’t remember Mercedes Benz procrastinating with years of camo and spin. They just proudly launched the new G Wagen.

I expect versions of the I Pace's battery pack will be in the Defender and other LRs, so it's good its competitive.