Won’t be retro...

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14th February 2019, 06:57 AM
scarry

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Well here ya go, looks like the new defender will get a straight 6 electrically supercharged + turbocharged JLR built ingenium engine (no more ford Sv6).

395bhp
265 or 294kw [emoji44]
495nm to 550nm

The new engine, a straight six as opposed to a V6, will also feature mild hybrid technology as part of Jaguar Land Rover’s aim to have electrified versions of all its vehicles by 2020.

The car maker said the new 400PS petrol engine will “add straight-six balance and refinement”

The new 3.0-litre engine, which produces 550Nm of torque, can propel the Range Rover Sport HST from a standing start to 60mph sprint in just 5.9 seconds and on to a top speed of 140mph.

It features an electric supercharger which will deliver immediate power response and according to the car maker “virtually eliminate” turbo lag.

Combined with Jaguar Land Rover’s Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) it will also deliver efficiency, with claimed combined fuel economy of 30.5mpg and CO2 emissions of 213g/km.

"It features a unique combination of an electric supercharger to deliver immediate response supported by a twin scroll turbocharger and Continuous Variable Valve Lift, which boosts power and help the engine to breathe with maximum efficiency," JLR said in its press release.

JLR claims the new engine is 20 per cent more efficient than the current V6 petrol engine, and reduces particulate emissions by up to 75 per cent thanks to a gasoline particulate filter.

Regen and mild hybrid

Considering this, i would be surprised if they still do an 8 in the new fender, its simply not needed.

Jaguar Land Rover reveals Ingenium inline-six | CarAdvice

Jaguar Land Rover reveals exciting new engine plans - CoventryLive

That new petrol six does look highly complicated,and the more complicated,the bigger chance of issues.

No where near as simple as,for example,the Y62 engine.

In fact it appears to be more complicated than a late model diesel.
14th February 2019, 08:26 AM
blackrangie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBD4

I didn't see any mention of the Defender n those articles....did I miss something?

Correct you missed nothing, however looking at the dates, it would be highly unlikely they don't offer that as an engine option due to them ending their contract with Ford for the SV6 around defender dates.

They will 100% have petrol options in the fender.

So what are the options Straight 6, V8 ?

"Throttle response is also expected to improve by 40 percent compared to the existing V-8 engines that are found in current Jaguar and Land Rover models."

"The new engine will go global in 2020, but the United Kingdom is set to get it early in a limited-edition Range Rover Sport HST. That vehicle is not destined for Australia."

It will also be used in the RRS HST which can now be ordered overseas. And also the new evoque.

It would be extremely unlikely the new Defender wouldn't get this engine option.

JLRA confirmed we will see it in JLR vehicles in AU from 2020

Land Rover reveals Ingenium straight-six powerplant
14th February 2019, 08:41 AM
blackrangie

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarry

That new petrol six does look highly complicated,and the more complicated,the bigger chance of issues.

No where near as simple as,for example,the Y62 engine.

In fact it appears to be more complicated than a late model diesel.

A straight 6 with a turbo and an electric charger is not extremely complicated by design. However i agree its no old school injected v6 or v8 or mechanical diesel.

You have to remember its all about emissions now.

As European emissions regulations become stricter, more car companies are having to rethink their powertrain strategies.

"JLR says the new six-cylinder Ingenium engines are EU6-compliant and can be driven in London's Ultra-Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) without penalty, which applies from April 2019."

This is why these engines will have a PPF (petrol particulate filter) particulate emissions drop 75%.

"Designed, developed and manufactured in-house at its Wolverhampton engine plant in the UK, JLR reckons its Ingenium engines "are amongst the cleanest in the world and meet the new regulated laboratory and real world tests (WLTP and RDE)"."

Due to petrol being a clean fuel and manufactures being aware of current DPF shortcomings, I can't forsee the petrol PPFs having similar problems that most DPF vehicles seem to have.

Having said all that give me a nice clean injected supercharged V6 or V8 any day, unfortunately moving forward this is not the world we live in.

From where I am sitting a modern ppf petrol or be more reliable than the current DPF diesels, however I'm sure the new ingenium diesels will step up the game so time will tell.

New generation ingenium diesels are also on the way i think evoque is first.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...65d62656a8.jpg
14th February 2019, 08:48 AM
harro

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Well here ya go, looks like the new defender will get a straight 6 electrically supercharged + turbocharged JLR built ingenium engine (no more ford Sv6).
395bhp
265 or 294kw [emoji44]
495nm to 550nm

In a Defender!
Yep just what I need in a remote tourer, nearly 300kw of high tech petrol engine.

Give me a low tech single turbo mid to high 100's kw diesel any day.
14th February 2019, 09:22 AM
SBD4

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackrangie

New generation ingenium diesels are also on the way i think evoque is first.

The Ingenium diesel and Petrol has been used since MY16 vehicles and first showed up in the Disco Sport. All four pot engines used in Land Rovers (and jags) now are Ingeniums. The engine is designed to be modular allowing 3 to 6 cylinders. This is similar to BMW and Mercs approach. It's only now that they are getting close to releasing the 6 cylinder version.
14th February 2019, 09:41 AM
blackrangie

Quote:

Originally Posted by harro

In a Defender!
Yep just what I need in a remote tourer, nearly 300kw of high tech petrol engine.

Give me a low tech single turbo mid to high 100's kw diesel any day.

Unfortunately low tech diesels are a thing of the past, looks like the old petrol vs diesel debate is coming back, should we start another thread haha.
14th February 2019, 09:42 AM
blackrangie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBD4

The Ingenium diesel and Petrol has been used since MY16 vehicles and first showed up in the Disco Sport. All four pot engines used in Land Rovers (and jags) now are Ingeniums. The engine is designed to be modular allowing 3 to 6 cylinders. This is similar to BMW and Mercs approach. It's only now that they are getting close to releasing the 6 cylinder version.

Good info!
14th February 2019, 11:23 AM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackrangie

I don't believe they are unreliable, they just need to be understood, driven differently and serviced differently.

The problem exists with many modern diesels, DPF/DEF related.

It seems to be a nature of the modern diesel beast

Hiluxs have a class action on DPF issues in AU, lights on dash, clogged dpf, limp mode etc.

V8 Diesel cruisers also suffer oil dilution issues.

From a post on this forum:

"DPF (or DPD) technology is not something new, its just been poorly implemented in the light vehicle industry to quickly meet high emission standards.
*DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) .... or adblue technology is the next step after DPF (see above) technology and vehicles dont use both.
*One big thing an engine needs to overcome to meet better emissions is internal friction (of the engine parts). To reduce internal friction manufacturers do two main things. Use a thinner oil and increase the clearances of internal parts. The down side of this is a greater consumption of oil and the likely hood of greater fuel bypass leading to oil dilution.
*Oil dilution from fuel bypass and oil consumption has always been part of a internal combustion engine.
*Typically older designs of engines are suffering more of the oil consumption and oil dilution issue.
*The two obvious ones that come to mind are the V8 diesel as used in the Land Cruisers and the V6 diesel as used in the Discovery (5). Both are realistically (due to modern emission standards) past their design life.

I take issue with quite a few things in that cut and paste, especially the bold bits.

If I get time I'll get to it tonight, but the problem with DPF is the regen.
14th February 2019, 12:50 PM
blackrangie

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

I take issue with quite a few things in that cut and paste, especially the bold bits.

If I get time I'll get to it tonight, but the problem with DPF is the regen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

*DPF (or DPD) technology is not something new, its just been poorly implemented in the light vehicle industry to quickly meet high emission standards.

*DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) .... or adblue technology is the next step after DPF (see above) technology and vehicles dont use both.

*One big thing an engine needs to overcome to meet better emissions is internal friction (of the engine parts). To reduce internal friction manufacturers do two main things. Use a thinner oil and increase the clearances of internal parts. The down side of this is a greater consumption of oil and the likely hood of greater fuel bypass leading to oil dilution.

*Oil dilution from fuel bypass and oil consumption has always been part of a internal combustion engine.

*Typically older designs of engines are suffering more of the oil consumption and oil dilution issue.

*The two obvious ones that come to mind are the V8 diesel as used in the Land Cruisers and the V6 diesel as used in the Discovery (5). Both are realistically (due to modern emission standards) past their design life.

Are OZ disco 5 suffering from fuel in oil and early service warning issus?

Also from a bit of searching on Aulro d5 forums, it seems when people got their oil tested for dilution, it was not diluted anywhere near the level stated on car (oil service due warning).
Apparently a software update was issued.

They are also running D5s with black ECB bars and winches are starting to be added.

ARB defs didn't say no to me when i spoke to the about the D5, they just said they have had a very busy start to the year, neither did Kaymar (Kaymar just want a donor car).
14th February 2019, 07:31 PM
Arapiles

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Are OZ disco 5 suffering from fuel in oil and early service warning issus?
Also from a bit of searching on Aulro d5 forums, it seems when people got their oil tested for dilution, it was not diluted anywhere near the level stated on car (oil service due warning).
Apparently a software update was issued.

Which, going back to the earlier comments about the D5 having been properly tested, suggests that it wasn't.

When I was looking for a D4 two years ago the dealers were cheerfully telling me that everyone was grabbing the last of them, and paying over the odds at that, because they all thought that the D5 would have teething problems.

Hopefully the extended delay on delivering the new Defender will mean that there won't be basic problems, like oil changes being required every couple of thousand kilometres.

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