Thread: The New Defender

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Isnt that what the Defender mild hybrid uses, turbo that is electrically assisted to spool without lag

Yes, it is still a supercharger. Modern turbocharged petrols are virtually lag free as turbo technology has advanced. They could have gotten similar performance without the electrics and turbos don't use engine power to spin them just waste exhaust.

Agree the world is changing, but like many fads - vinyl, cfcs etc it remains to be seen if any of this will actually have the desired effect.

Localised, centralised, de-centralised... we shall have to wait and see.

CO2 isn’t the monster it’s made out to be.

(Soilent Green would be a better solution to Carbon emissions)

For better or worse
CO2 will be the fall guy though!!!


Back to the MHEV - don’t forget that on take off the generator/starter is also acting as electric drive assist. Getting 2.5T From zero to 60 uses a lot of energy. By assisting take off with electric power saved from braking I can see the city cycle fuel use being greatly improved

Also I am sure JLR will be using this Mild Hybrid as a test bed for electrification of drive trains

Model 1 may seem a little excessive electrickery for minimal gain
But Model x will be the winner...

S

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Vehicle mass effect on roads is a long bow to draw Mike!
Every second vehicle is a SUV or dual cab weighing essentially 2T
The new Defisco (keeping on track for BR) will be 2.6 - 2.7 rolling down the road.

I think the point you are missing is that come what may
The emission of carbon dioxide WILL be limited in the near future
Most likely on the back of financial reasons. Insurance companies and finance companies will act faster than governments and the result will be a change in energy development and production.

The fact you are also leaving out is that the creation and transmission of electricity at a centralised location is more efficient on a Carbon Dioxide releasing scale than within a million individual ICE.

The lack of recyclability hardly trumps new technology. Good ole tyres are minimally recycled but there is no shift back to steel rimmed wooden hoops? Geez most Australian recyclable plastics go to landfill now China doesn’t want out junk - packaging hasn’t changed much...


Here’s a Few thoughts on how things might play out.
93% of all business that employ people in Australia have 1-19 employees
Let’s make the maths easy and say 5 dedicated solar fed charge points per business.
That would
a/ not be difficult to achieve space and charge density wise and
b/ be pretty achievable with some simple changes in enticements (thinking FBT exemption on supplying EV power as a Benefit)
c/ selling power back to the grid FIT is not as economically valuable as storing it in a battery.

And well the next thought is even more simple.... “your” kids kids likely won’t drive
There will be exemptions. I can’t exactly call an Uber to our farm gate and honesty don’t think I ever will be able to - but In locations of reasonable pop density you won’t own a Tesla - You will just get driven around in one.

Have another read of your arguments against EV , they sound a lot like “the streets will be filled with horse dung”
The world is changing before your very eyes - maybe not as quickly as some pundits would have it but pretty bloody quick!

S

Cmon roverrescue Defisco, really, you know people don't like it so why do you continue to do it? A jokes a joke, Its the new defender weather you like it or not and we have been over the many reasons why it has every right to be called that,
Are we guna call a D1 a rangeovery too?

As far as pointing out the weights for BR to keep on subject(this is forum rules and the way it works dont do it for me), sorry how does adding the defender weight that you made up keep things on subject? Its 2.3t full of fuel and driver. Infact most will be 2.3t-2.4t driving around modt of the time, heavily modded ones or ones on trips with fams could be up to 3t+.

I would prefer horse dung and NO impermiable streets, horse dung is biodegradable, i used to collect it and sell it on the side of the road as a kid.
Its much better than a planet that is uninhabitable due to us ruining the delicate balance on so many levels.

LR have pretty much said there will be no EV defender

Mhev, phev, ice are the current options on the table.

Can we keep it to a discussion of the new defender if talking about fuels and there are other threads both on engine choice and alternative energy.

Harmless, well yes, until someone wants to actually find on subject info and has to sift through 100 pages of EV vs ICE vs hybrid vs alternative energys etc that has been done to death on other threads.

Trial complete: electric vehicles can work in Australia

Goodnight Diesel. ...Land Rover get your EV skates on!

Originally Posted by Geedublya

Yes, it is still a supercharger. Modern turbocharged petrols are virtually lag free as turbo technology has advanced. They could have gotten similar performance without the electrics and turbos don't use engine power to spin them just waste exhaust.

We have a modern turbo petrol and there is Lag and its annoying comming from a supercharged vehicle i can tell you.
I believe the electrics also help the defender start from a standing stop.

As per Roverescues post above Its not just the supercharger the electrics are there for.

On the MHEV defender it has a belt starter/generator. Under 3kph engine shuts off. But the car is fully functional.

140nm torque starts engine as soon as foot is down and assists take off.

100more hp, minimal fuel use and emissions increase over the D240, there is a lot to like. Its not a new system i believe this has been around for a while in other markets in the RRS HST.

YouTube

YouTube

4xFAR Presented by Land Rover - Music and Adventure Festival

I'm not sure where you guys are are getting the 100HP figure from for the MHEV system... Maybe you're thinking the P300 is the same engine but without the electrics. The P300 is a IL4 Cyl petrol.

The MHEV system is only meant to assist with transient acceleration and can only deliver between 14-20Kw(depending on the motor) PEAK for a very brief 2-3 seconds and 2-3Kw sustained and with the 48V capacity being minimal that is not the primary aim of the system. It is there to remove turbo lag through the electric S/C and do the low speed electric drive.

The P400 ICE engine pretty much is what the specs say. The electric motor can only directly contribute 25HP for very brief intervals it's more effective for it to drive the ~7Kw electric supercharger to remove turbo lag and boot the ICE to its max power/torque almost instantly to gain performance.

The fuels economy savings are made when the engine is stopped while traveling under 3 Km/h coasting to a stop.

Have a read of this - continue onto the subsequent pages ("next articles") for more detailed explanations of the different MHEV architectures and how they work:
Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) – introduction – x-engineer.org

Originally Posted by Red90

It takes it from 300 hp to 400 hp while using less fuel. That is not a small gain.

Originally Posted by blackrangie

We have a modern turbo petrol and there is Lag and its annoying comming from a supercharged vehicle i can tell you.
I believe the electrics also help the defender start from a standing stop.

As per Roverescues post above Its not just the supercharger the electrics are there for.

On the MHEV defender it has a belt starter/generator. Under 3kph engine shuts off. But the car is fully functional.

140nm torque starts engine as soon as foot is down and assists take off.

100more hp, minimal fuel use and emissions increase over the D240, there is a lot to like. Its not a new system i believe this has been around for a while in other markets in the RRS HST.

YouTube

YouTube

Originally Posted by blackrangie

We have a modern turbo petrol and there is Lag and its annoying comming from a supercharged vehicle i can tell you.
I believe the electrics also help the defender start from a standing stop.

As per Roverescues post above Its not just the supercharger the electrics are there for.

On the MHEV defender it has a belt starter/generator. Under 3kph engine shuts off. But the car is fully functional.

140nm torque starts engine as soon as foot is down and assists take off.

100more hp, minimal fuel use and emissions increase over the D240, there is a lot to like. Its not a new system i believe this has been around for a while in other markets in the RRS HST.

YouTube

YouTube

been reading all about this for a few weeks now... and for some reason I would feel nervous owning the first iteration of this particular models drive train option...