Thread: Military 109 wagon?

Originally Posted by dreamin'

Had a closer look today

From what I can work out, assuming the VIN is original, this is an early 2a with later model front guards, grille panel, steering wheel, handbrake, heater and wiper motor.

Would be keen to hear from anyone who could help confirm this - I am trying to get an idea of what it would take to get it back to original spec.

Original colour appears to be darkish grey, with lighter colour painted over roof and door tops. Does not look like navy colour scheme discussed earlier .Rear LR badge is painted light colour with blue and red lettering - is this likely to be original?.

It has battery mounts under passenger seat AND on chassis in engine bay - reading James Taylor's II/IIA specs book, does this suggest it was originally a diesel? The fuel filler cap is painted yellow (military?) - are there any other features to identify a diesel?

Bamford winch and brush bar look to have been added later, assuming mounting frames welded to dumb irons were not standard issue?

Rear axle is Salisbury type, front is Rover.

Fuel tank has substantial protection on all sides - standard?

Rear doors are one piece, fronts are two-piece.

Overall body and chassis are very straight and only bad rust is in bulkhead.

Pics attached - any help appreciated

Thanks

Roger

A few things here.

There were no diesel 109 station wagons in SIIa.

Its chassis number makes a 1962 model 2 1/4 litre petrol, so the battery under the seat is either a diesel seatbox or a later 6 cyl seatbox or the original one modified.

The rear Salisbury came off a later vehicle. If it has 9/16" wheel studs. the rear axle came off a Suffix H or later SIIa if 16mm studs it's off a series III.

The front guards came off a SIIa suffix H or series III, the firewall has been replaced with a SIIa suffix C or later SIIa but not SIII, the handbrake has come off a later model the same as the firewall and the front bumper and extension are home made.

I can not see the bonnet completely, but can't see the recess for the spare wheel, which would be correct for a station wagon with bonnet mounted 7.50 16 spare wheel.

The drivers seat is off another brand of car.

The rest is civilian, with aftermarket accessories.

I'm sorry but that vehicle is a bitsa built up from at least two other vehicles and possibly more.

The term VIN only came about in the 1980s and relates to the 17 alphanumeric code that identifies country of manufacture, manufacturer, model, engine, year etc and then serial number. Before the 1980s it is a car number or chassis number and in Land Rover those two numbers should match.
Diana

Thanks Diana

Certainly a bitsa - just trying to work out if there is enough original there to warrant reversing the mods. The main body and chassis seem straight and intact, which I had thought might be a good start for restoration of such an early model, if the later changes were mainly to bolt-on components.

The Taylor book says battery under the seat came in at suffix A - was this different for Aus/CKD models?

Bonnet is deluxe style - dished for spare and rounded front edge, with square hinge plates.

What defines a suffix A firewall, apart from demister vents, wiper motors etc that can be swapped on or off?

Above all, is it worth restoring as an early 2a?

Thanks

R

Originally Posted by dreamin'

What defines a suffix A firewall, apart from demister vents, wiper motors etc that can be swapped on or off?

The firewall and windscreen on that one is a late IIA type (I think the wipers changed in '67).

It is not simply a matter of swapping wipers on and off., The early type wipers are fitted to the windscreen, the late type, which you have are fitted to the firewall. The hole for the wiper drive worm and wiper spindles, and many other minor things changed. It would be a lot of work to make a late-type firewall look like an early type.

If it really is a '62 chassis, I would think that it is a late IIA that has had the chassis replaced.

Originally Posted by dreamin'

Thanks Diana

Certainly a bitsa - just trying to work out if there is enough original there to warrant reversing the mods. The main body and chassis seem straight and intact, which I had thought might be a good start for restoration of such an early model, if the later changes were mainly to bolt-on components.

The Taylor book says battery under the seat came in at suffix A - was this different for Aus/CKD models?

Bonnet is deluxe style - dished for spare and rounded front edge, with square hinge plates.

What defines a suffix A firewall, apart from demister vents, wiper motors etc that can be swapped on or off?

Above all, is it worth restoring as an early 2a?

Thanks

R

Taylor while knowledgible is not infalliable.

The battery was under the bonnet for all 2 1/4 litre petrol models. The diesel models had 2 X 6V 12" batteries, hence one battery under the bonnet and one under the seat. However you may be correct my IIa parts catalogue only lists one seatbase, so the recess for the battery may have been present on suff A. But not the fittings or battery.

The suffix A had 2 individual wiper motors one for each screen with the holes in the windscreen frame. On your vehicle the hole the for the top of the wiper motor, the holes for the 2 cable wheel boxes and the brackets for the cover plate were not present until the suffix C firewall.

A lot of the parts are bolt on bolt off, so if you have a good straight chassis it always a good place to start.

The decision to restore is yours, you could do a pedantic restoration to bring things back to 1962 specs, or a refurbishment sympathetic to the whole of the SIIa, but the SIII grill would have to go to be true.

Is the SIII heater hole present on the LHS mudguard?

Thanks for the replies

Where should chassis number be found on the chassis itself? This might be the next thing to check.

Also, there are holes in windscreen frame for wiper motors (same as my series 1s), but filled with bog.

R

My suffix A 2¼P has the (unused) recess to fit a battery under the seat.

Originally Posted by dreamin'

Thanks for the replies

Where should chassis number be found on the chassis itself? This might be the next thing to check.

Also, there are holes in windscreen frame for wiper motors (same as my series 1s), but filled with bog.

R

Should be on the LH rear spring hanger - if it is Australian assembled, and probably if it was imported officially (I have an idea all wagons were fully imported). However, if it was an individual import, the number may be elsewhere, probably on the outside of the RH front dumb iron.

You may have to remove several layers of paint/rust to see any numbers. If it is in the usual place on the LH rear spring hanger, it will be on the flat vertical bit just above the shackle.

John

Thanks John - will get it checked out

Another odd thing. I also remember someone mentioning all station wagons were imported - Diana, maybe?

This one's chassis number comes up on CalVIN as wagon and CKD, and it has a Rover Australia station wagon badge on rear.

Odd

R