Thread: Modified 300tdi v standard td5 power?

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Is it a fact?

300Tdi - common major engine faults:
Timing Belt (early models)
Head softening and head gasket failure
Big end bearings (mid production)

TD5 - common major engine faults:
Oil pump bolt
oil in loom (not really major)
Head dowels and gasket failure (early models)
Flywheel (very early models only)

Seem about the same to me...

Timing belts are no longer a problem, you just have replace them every 100,000km.
I've never heard of "head softening", I have heard of people overheating 300s and blowing head gaskets. In fact, I would goes as far to say that 99% of all 300 head gasket failures is due to over heating them, which is no different to the TD5.
Big ends wearing out seems to be from a VERY selective number of cars, I would hardly call it a common problem.

You forgot about the harmonic balance self destructing on the TD5s..

So, as I said; the TD5 has more known problems that HAVEN'T/CAN'T be rectified then a 300.

I think it's important to note that if a 300 had a full width intercooler and a GT2052 turbo (just like a TD5), it would be able to produce TD5 power EASILY.

I'm not saying the TD5 is bad engine! I don't mind them at all, but they're no better than a 300, just slightly more power and torque and more lag with A LOT more complication.

Td5s and Tdis both have head problems; warping, cracking, softening, etc.

The Harmonic Balancer is not really a problem until upwards of 200k ish, mine was done at 211k.
The new Ross balancer kit is getting good reports.
So if you can say "the timing belts a not a problem, just change them at 100k", what's to stop me from saying the same about the injector loom?

I know of plenty of TDI's that have snapped timing belts well below 100k (service interval is 60 or 80kkm IIRC), and when a timing belt goes it almost instantly bends the pushrods and valve stems if you're particularly unlucky.

Zeus gears can fix that issue (can you tell I don't like timing belts?).

But to say you can get as much power reliably from a Tdi as you can reliably from a Td5 is simply bollocks, completely different class of engine, remember the Tdi is the old 2.25 petrol block from the Stone Age!

Zeus timing gears have their own set of issues

Originally Posted by Disco Muppet

Tdi conversions are popular because they're cheap and easy.
Unless you're skilled on the spanners and have the donor car right next to you, Td5 conversions are probably cost prohibitive to most people.
I'd give one a crack, but it would take a lot of prior planning and preparation, and a fairly comprehensive understanding of the Td5 and it's various systems.

It just goes to show doesn't it, that whilst a TD5 is more refined when it comes to delivering power it may never be as popular and long lasting as the TDI.

Lets look at the UK for an example, because they have a healthy market for landrover parts. TD5 Disco II's can be picked up for CHEAP! Easily the same kind of prices people were snapping up disco 1's for their TDI conversions. But it just doesn't seem to be happening as much. So perhaps people have not clocked on or it is not the price of picking up the donor that is the problem.

The TD5 is no spring chicken, it is at an age where the TDI was a popular replacement for all the previous diesel and V8 options, and even now that TD5 doners are cheap people are still going to the TD5's predecessor for their projects.

Look at this guy he is selling 300TDI's to replace TD5's... is he nuts or is there actually a market for this? land rover 300tdi engine into TD5/V8 discovery 2 defenders | eBay

It seems to me that when it comes to second hand engines - simple, versatile, cheap to maintain, reliable is the win. Remarkably the TDI is still the best at meeting those requirements. So this is probably why the OP gets the 'you should have got a TDI talk'. But that is not because of performance its about overall value.

Until people actually own a good Td5 and live with it, they're never going to know.
If you want to be able to fix your engine with a piece of fencing wire, go ahead and get a 300tdi.
Or, if you want a smoother and more powerful and infinitely more tunable motor, WITH IT'S ASSOCIATED ISSUES, get a Td5
It's a more complex motor, of course it's going to be a different kettle of fish in terms of working on it.
I hardly knew one end of a spanner and thought a prop shaft was a differential before I bought my Td5. Even for a novice like me it's been easy to work on, with the help of this forum
Yet, if I'd asked what I should buy before I bought mine on here, I'd probably have ended up with a Tdi.
Td5 has a very bad reputation I think, and not one that is entirely justified.

I think Tdi and Td5 owners as a whole should just consider themselves lucky,our motors do not have sticky threads full of very irate owners complaining about melted pistons,stuffed injectors and constant oil usage,long live the ''over stressed'' 2.5ltr Land Rover engine. Pat

Originally Posted by MR LR

I know of plenty of TDI's that have snapped timing belts well below 100k (service interval is 60 or 80kkm IIRC), and when a timing belt goes it almost instantly bends the pushrods and valve stems if you're particularly unlucky.

Zeus gears can fix that issue (can you tell I don't like timing belts?).

But to say you can get as much power reliably from a Tdi as you can reliably from a Td5 is simply bollocks, completely different class of engine, remember the Tdi is the old 2.25 petrol block from the Stone Age!

Not bollocks at all. volumetric efficiency is about the same on the two, so they should be able to achieve the same power/torque from the same amount of boost and fuel. Of course the TD5 can spread it's power over 5 cyls, not 4, so that would make it 25% stronger.

The Tdi is BASED on the last of the 2.5 5 bearing LR blocks, not the 2.25 3 bearing. The 5 bearing being a super strong block to begin with.

I'm happy with my 300, I can pull it down and completely rebuild it for peanuts over a weekend (working very slowly), I KNOW I couldn't do that with a TD5. Just on a side note, I think I should be able to run some ARP head studs when and if I ever rebuild it, which will cure it's (yet to be experienced by me) head gasket issue.

Obviously, I'm never going to convince you guys, so I guess I'll leave you all to your little Tdi witch hunt