Thread: Adaptor shaft

Originally Posted by Sitec

Bollocks! So, you leave your wheel bearings loose.. with no preload then!? The boys at Regency wouldn't like that!

Sitec, you should know better, regreese then nip them up and back it off. before you smack the locking tab

85 county.

I look at it this way. Three examples.

Wheel bearing - tapered - you use a torque wench to first bed the bearing, then you ease off and retorque to a lower value to give the bearing opportunity to expand when hot - the bearing is 'pre-loaded' because you are able to directly read the preload off the wrench.

In some situations - tapered bearing - there is no nut, so you measure end float, but if the end float is too big or too small you change pressures by adjusting shims - in this case you will not know what the preload values are, but they are there.

In some situations - tapered bearing - you cannot use a torque wrench because there is no nut, you cannot measure end float because access is blocked, so you wrap string around the shaft and to the other end a fish scale and pull to determine rotational resistance. If resistance is too little or too much you change the pressure or preload by shims for example, but again you will never know what the preload value is, but it is there.

I guess if you had the maths smarts and other required data you could in fact calculate the preload values if you could not determine them directly .

85 county, you ask what the point is. Your other response asserted you never preload a taper bearing 'period', but NPK by example says there are circumstances where you may. And the 'may' is implying you can measure those preload forces directly with a torque wrench because the load is applied by a nut. You can't apply 'preload' where you can't use a torque wrench, you have to use other methods, but the unknown preload force is still there. As I mentioned elsewhere above maybe the issue is terminology.

Also, as you pointed out in another thread, I and others are wannabees, no argument - just if you think we are wrong then approach us in a reasonable and constructive way and keep the bitching out of this thread and don't denigrating us in other threads as you have done, and done with wrong information.

You have made valid points re case alignment for example, and you have said on the other thread you have a lot of industry knowledge, but which you are not going to share because of previous run ins, which is unfortunate. I would be happy to listen to your other arguments if evidence supported and presented in a considerate manner. But please, please, change the way you approach people - you will be liked more for it

Again, this is just a wannabee thinking through the problem. If someone with genuine knowledge of the topic says its bunkum, in a polite way, and is prepared to explain, then great. Always happy to learn all round.

Vern. Should I shut up now and go back to drawing uni joints with sliding splines...

Originally Posted by workingonit

<snip>

Vern. Should I shut up now and go back to drawing uni joints with sliding splines...

No more sliding uni joints - he just needs a stock 28 spline shaft to suit the new flange....

Got it fitted yet Damien

Steve

Originally Posted by workingonit

85 county.

I look at it this way. Three examples.

Wheel bearing - tapered - you use a torque wench to first bed the bearing, then you ease off and retorque to a lower value to give the bearing opportunity to expand when hot - the bearing is 'pre-loaded' because you are able to directly read the preload off the wrench.

Preload is what it says, pre load, it is not preload because you can read it on a gage, that's silly. But think about what you are actually doing. First torque setting is to get all faces in contact with out damage to the bearing. Back off to remove contact, toque to make partial contact. If you read the information you linked to before it stated Axle and radial forces. It say this not in layman's terms. But what it means is that the weight of the bearing and assembly must be taken into account. IE the weight of the assembly is pushing the bearings apart. Once apart there is partial contact. But re torqueing to a lower force is done to overcome the weight of the assembly to achieve the required partial contact. NOT to achieve FULL contact. If there is NO full CONTACT there is NO preload?period no friggen argument. It's the laws of physics.

Originally Posted by workingonit

In some situations - tapered bearing - there is no nut, so you measure end float, but if the end float is too big or too small you change pressures by adjusting shims - in this case you will not know what the preload values are, but they are there.

MATE GGGRRRRR if there is end float there is Zero preload, zip nada nothing!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by workingonit

In some situations - tapered bearing - you cannot use a torque wrench because there is no nut, you cannot measure end float because access is blocked, so you wrap string around the shaft and to the other end a fish scale and pull to determine rotational resistance. If resistance is too little or too much you change the pressure or preload by shims for example, but again you will never know what the preload value is, but it is there.

When you do this on an LT95 gearbox. And you do it more than once, you are measuring the friction between the dogs and cones. Not the bearings. This is also the common method for angular contact bearings which in all cases have preload ( think spindle moulders. High speed stuff)

Originally Posted by workingonit

85 county, you ask what the point is. Your other response asserted you never preload a taper bearing 'period', but NPK by example says there are circumstances where you may. And the 'may' is implying you can measure those preload forces directly with a torque wrench because the load is applied by a nut. You can't apply 'preload' where you can't use a torque wrench, you have to use other methods, but the unknown preload force is still there. As I mentioned elsewhere above maybe the issue is terminology.

It says MAY when it is required to factor in axle and radial loads

Originally Posted by workingonit

Also, as you pointed out in another thread, I and others are wannabees, no argument - just if you think we are wrong then approach us in a reasonable and constructive way and keep the bitching out of this thread and don't denigrating us in other threads as you have done, and done with wrong information.

Because constructive information seems not to sink in to some

Originally Posted by workingonit

You have made valid points re case alignment for example, and you have said on the other thread you have a lot of industry knowledge, but which you are not going to share because of previous run ins, which is unfortunate. I would be happy to listen to your other arguments if evidence supported and presented in a considerate manner. But please, please, change the way you approach people - you will be liked more for it

But it has been shard by othere people. The posting of the manual was a game changer. Myself and I would say others had not taken into account deflection. Maybe if pictures of the non grub worn shafts had been posted. As I suspect the difference in adapter housings have shown different symptoms for the same problem

Originally Posted by workingonit

Again, this is just a wannabee thinking through the problem. If someone with genuine knowledge of the topic says its bunkum, in a polite way, and is prepared to explain, then great. Always happy to learn all round.

well I guess a good example. I post you argue. Thus I will stop posting and leave you to keep applying logic without the basic building blocks of knowledge

Originally Posted by workingonit

Vern. Should I shut up now and go back to drawing uni joints with sliding splines...

Originally Posted by steveG

No more sliding uni joints - he just needs a stock 28 spline shaft to suit the new flange....

Got it fitted yet Damien

Steve

Flange turned up today, I need to get a spacer ring made up to go between the two flanges of either 5 or 6mm, this will bring the lt230 input seal into the middle of where the flange seal surface is and find a 45mm seal.
Then I need to get a shaft made approx. 167mm long, 55mm @ 28 spline msa diameter, 70mm or the rest of the shaft @sae10.
Done.


So who on here can draw CAD?

Originally Posted by Vern

Flange turned up today, I need to get a spacer ring made up to go between the two flanges of either 5 or 6mm, this will bring the lt230 input seal into the middle of where the flange seal surface is and find a 45mm seal.
Then I need to get a shaft made approx. 167mm long, 55mm @ 28 spline msa diameter, 70mm or the rest of the shaft @sae10.
Done.


So who on here can draw CAD?

Can't help with the CAD, but make sure it goes fully into a long spline input gear. Ie compromise on the 55mm spline length if you have to rather than not being able to insert it fully due to the depth runout where the 10 spline ends.

I know you're probably already onto it but had to say it anyway

Steve

Yeah it will steve, the 70mm is measured roughly from sheldons shaft which fits the long spline input gear

The spacer i need drawn is 120mm od, 80.25mm id, bolt spacings are 81mm and 58mm, 12mm diameter out of 5 or 6mm plate