Thread: Isuzu MSA Gearbox to LT230

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Bush65 has a cable shift on his 6 speed. He has posted pics on here somewhere.

Yes into an '84 Range Rover.



There is more room in the Range Rover/Disco for a cable shift to be positioned. The Toyota Carolla cable set up does look pretty neat. Still have to mount the lever itself and the hi/lo/difflock.

Interference.jpg

This is Bush65 image and (6 speed) box, but the equivalent top lever (circled) on the MSA box would interfer with the tunnel/firewall of both a Disco/Defender.

The other lever circled would clear in a Disco, but hit the tunnel in a Defender.

The levers could be modified to clear. This would also mean the bracket that holds the cables to the bellhousing would also need to be modified (fabricated) to match the angles.

Forwards.jpg

The shifter is about in the right position in this image of Bush65 setup (but still needs to be mounted). To keep things looking stock the hi/lo/difflock would need to be mounted just in front of the shifter (and behind the circle).

In a Defender, to keep things looking stock, the shifter would need to be mounted where the circle is. But to have the cables run forwards there is the bulge of the gearbox. You could run the cables backwards - but this would stuff your shift pattern up. Or you could move the whole set up backwards, having the shifter where the cubby box is.

The Isuzu cable shift is different again in that the cables come out vertical of the shift lever. Hence would need a lot of clearance if mounted directly above the gearbox or transfer case.

Has been done in a Rangie, can be done in a Defender, but please define better? Better in terms of usability? in simplicity to install it? in keeping things looking stock standard? or in cost?

Bush65 maybe able to share his thoughts... Or Ramon when he is finished....

Originally Posted by steveG

My concern is that I've spent 30 years driving a pretty standard pattern shift, and that my County isn't my daily drive (or my wife's).
I've had numerous situations where I've been on "automatic" and got the wipers going instead of the indicators, turned off the lights on my Disco instead of the wipers etc. Doesn't happen normally when I'm THINKING about the action, but at times of higher workload (poor visibility/heavy traffic etc).

Selecting 4th or 5th instead of reverse when starting off isn't a problem, but I reckon the 3-4th shift would see me come unstuck.
The situation would be a short onramp freeway merge in heavy traffic. Hard accelleration in 3rd to get to freeway speed, one eyeball on the car in front, one on the spot I'm trying to merge into, and my brain focused on keeping an airgap around the car.
Unthinking shift to 4th - GRRRRR - GRRRRR - WTF - oh %^&$ thats reverse - speeds dropping off so missed the gap and now have 30M of semi beside me - end of onramp approaching etc.
You get the picture.

I'm sure if I was driving it every day then I'd get used to it pretty quickly and it would become an automated action. But I'm not (and neither would my wife be).

Anyway - thats my reasoning.

Steve

Thanks Steve.

Might just be reason enough for me to go back to the drawing board....

Originally Posted by the_grubb

...but please define better? Better in terms of usability? in simplicity to install it? in keeping things looking stock standard? or in cost?

All I meant was "a better option for vern if he wants a normal shift pattern". However that was before you said it was easy to change...

Personally I prefer linkage to cable, as IME cable shifters tend to be sloppier.

The backwards pattern doesn't really bother me. However IMHO it should be disclosed in the advertisment/blurb/FAQ.

I personally might be willing to pay an extra $50 to have a normal shift. Also, personally, doing tunnel or firewall mods to clear the box or linkages not a big issue.

- btw - Bush65's current iteration is a defender 110 ute with a bushranger-type body. So not sure if that would classify as a defender or rangie???

Just did some digging and dug this up...


Originally Posted by Bush65 View Post
With my current rangie project I will change the Corolla cable shifter to use 2 short rods instead of cables - I was not totally happy with the tight bend in the cables and don't want to get longer cables made up because I want a tidier engine bay without the cables.

It looks easy enough to do using the Corolla shifter. Is should be simple enough to make from scratch, but I already have the Corolla gear shift.

When the gear shift lever is moved in the left-right direction, a horizontal finger rotates a bell crank that will operate (via connecting rod/link) the top lever on the Isuzu box in the forward-rearward direction. I need to modify the bell crank because of the change from cable to rod (to correct height difference and direction of operation).

When the gear shift lever is moved in the forward-rearward direction, a vertical finger will operate (via connecting rod/link) the side lever on the Isuzu box in the rearward-forward direction. I need to modify the lever on the side of the Isuzu gearbox because of the change from cable to rod (to correct direction of operation).

Dougal's quote;

That's what I'd like to do. But I think I'm screwed for room.
How much space do you have between the top of the gearbox casting and the underside of the firewall and heater?
I have about 5-10mm. The top of the box has been shaved (neutral switch removed) to get it in.

I have no body lift and can't lower the engine for more clearance due to the front axle. I don't want to lose any more front suspension compression.
I plan to swap to a later model body, hopefully the later style transmission tunnel will give me more room there. I've been hunting for a donor for some time and haven't yet found the right one.
Looking for a 92-94 with intact air suspension, tidy interior (not brown) and tidy panels.
They're hard to find.

*edit*
Are you using the long stick position (same as LT95) or the short stick position like the later classics?
I'm currently long stick, but will go short stick when I find the new body.
*/edit*

Seems Bush65 was not entirely happy with the Carolla cable shifter.... Is Bush65 still around?

Originally Posted by isuzurover

All I meant was "a better option for vern if he wants a normal shift pattern". However that was before you said it was easy to change...

Personally I prefer linkage to cable, as IME cable shifters tend to be sloppier.

The backwards pattern doesn't really bother me. However IMHO it should be disclosed in the advertisment/blurb/FAQ.

I personally might be willing to pay an extra $50 to have a normal shift. Also, personally, doing tunnel or firewall mods to clear the box or linkages not a big issue.

- btw - Bush65's current iteration is a defender 110 ute with a bushranger-type body. So not sure if that would classify as a defender or rangie???

Yes my bad with the non-disclosure of the mirrored shift pattern. I honestly didn't think it was an issue. Everyone who has got a kit so far hasn't been bothered about it, so I guess by the time Vern came along it seemed like a relatively unimportant issue.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant was better

Originally Posted by the_grubb

Seems Bush65 was not entirely happy with the Carolla cable shifter.... Is Bush65 still around?

John has moved to a bush block not that far from you. Inland from hervey bay I recall...
Apparently he does not yet have internet on.

Originally Posted by the_grubb

Just did some digging and dug this up...

Good find. All these years on I'm still hunting for that 92-94 body with good interior and air suspension. Found an LSE, but doesn't do it for me.

Originally Posted by steveG

My concern is that I've spent 30 years driving a pretty standard pattern shift, and that my County isn't my daily drive (or my wife's).
I've had numerous situations where I've been on "automatic" and got the wipers going instead of the indicators, turned off the lights on my Disco instead of the wipers etc. Doesn't happen normally when I'm THINKING about the action, but at times of higher workload (poor visibility/heavy traffic etc).

Selecting 4th or 5th instead of reverse when starting off isn't a problem, but I reckon the 3-4th shift would see me come unstuck.
The situation would be a short onramp freeway merge in heavy traffic. Hard accelleration in 3rd to get to freeway speed, one eyeball on the car in front, one on the spot I'm trying to merge into, and my brain focused on keeping an airgap around the car.
Unthinking shift to 4th - GRRRRR - GRRRRR - WTF - oh %^&$ thats reverse - speeds dropping off so missed the gap and now have 30M of semi beside me - end of onramp approaching etc.
You get the picture.

I'm sure if I was driving it every day then I'd get used to it pretty quickly and it would become an automated action. But I'm not (and neither would my wife be).

Anyway - thats my reasoning.

Steve

Pretty much that, 1500-2000 repititons and things become habitual, very hard to break a habit and yea swinging from car to car, european, indicators on left and australian on the right, I've had my indicators on the left of alot of rovers for years and still brain fade every now and then and hit the wipers to indicate, so gear change will be no different, I was going to see how Vern's turns out and purchase for my rover, make a nice setup with 1.22 case and 37's, but wont run a reverse pattern gearshift