EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

I did say they must be taking cue cards from Tesla. [emoji48]

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Happy to noted my smarty pants prediction used and new current EV prices would fall. The gent who suggested trade in value of my quirky version at 32k was not insulting despite seeing them advertised at some silly 2nd hand prices
Just saw one at 34K


Things flip very quickly with supply constraints seeing some sell new cars more than they just brought them for just a few years ago[biggrin]

My thought are still lower prices likely for both new and used EV.

"Nearly 40 percent of used EVs in the United States are available for less than $30,000, according to Recurrent’s latest market report.The prices of used all-electric vehicles in the United States have gone down 28 percent since July 2022, according to the latest car buying report from Recurrent, with used Tesla prices seeing a decrease of more than 30 percent year-over-year as a consequence of the company reducing new vehicle prices.
Furthermore, Recurrent’s data shows that nearly 40 percent of used EVs in the United States are available at less than $30,000, which is good news for people going after the potential $4,000 tax credit offered by the IRS for eligible zero-emissions vehicles that cost $25,000 or less and have a battery of at least 7 kilowatt-hours.
The declining prices for used EVs in the US are partly due to price cuts for new cars, including federal incentives for battery-powered cars, but also because demand for used cars has softened."

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Fake it till you make it? "Please don't buy an EV now - Toyota."

There is only one reason why car companies talk about products in development and that is they want to limit sales losses to competitors.

Solid state batteries: Toyota has history of talking big on EV breakthrough, but not delivering

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Yep - 'Please don't buy an EV now' roughly translates to 'we've dropped the ball on this one and have nothing to offer you in the near future but our crappy diesels and ancient hybrid tech'

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Originally Posted by Tombie

As an example, Here is an excerpt from a research paper: Carbon Footprint Study of Tesla Model 3 - (Note: This research is based on 150,000km of driving)

Its never as cut and dry as they claim.

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Hey Tombie - you will be pleased to know I actually did read that paper. [emoji851]

It is a good study in that it follows the same methodology that Volvo use in the Carbon Footprint report for their C40 Recharge. It also looks to align with the life cycle emissions comparison made by Mitsubishi with respect to BEV vs ICE for cars made and used in China.

But it is from 2019 and uses carbon footprint data from 2013 which is all a bit dated now. Which leads to a few problems with the assumptions they have used.

First is they appear to be using a power generation emission rate of over 1,100 gCO2e/kWh - which would be correct for brown coal power generation, but this is 80% higher than the emission rates now seen on average in China and Australia.

Second it assumes the Tesla 3 will average 26 kWh/100km - which would be a worse case usage. Real world usage is probably 40% less than this.

These two assumptions alone result in the claimed in usage emissions rate for the Tesla 3 being 2.5 times higher than what you would expect (if we assume power usage accounts for 95% of the in-use emissions), and so completely distorts the life cycle analysis.

Using an average of 18 kWh/100km and 600 gCO2e/kWh for power generation, and the Tesla 3 would have come out at a life cycle average of 195 gCO2e/km vs 322 gCO2e/km for the ICE used in the paper (or a 40% reduction over the 150,000 km).

Of course if they are using 2013 carbon footprint data, then the ICE life cycle emissions data is probably also over stated but it is very similar to what Volvo quote for the XC40 ICE (295 gCO2e/km vs 322 gCO2e/km used in the paper). So perhaps more like a 33% reduction in favour of the Tesla 3 if updating the ICE assumed values as well.

As you note, these studies are never as cut and dry as they appear as they are very much dependent on the assumptions being used, and where the power generation comes from.

Which is why both sides of the debate will always be able to come up with a study that supports their argument.

I like Taiwan[biggrin] "ProLogium’s solid-state battery pack is much more compact and lightweight than a standard lithium battery, which means it’s better suited for EV applications, in particular, in electric motorcycles, where batteries must be compact and lightweight. Indeed, lowering weight and increasing energy density seem like the perfect marriage when it comes to electric motorcycle batteries, but ProLogium’s claimed benefits don’t end here

At present, ProLogium’s new battery is slated to power heavy-duty machinery such as trains, boats, and other industrial vehicles. That said, testing of the battery on EVs—particularly electric cars—is slated to take place in Europe before 2023 draws to a close."+

Link to yarn

Link to Company

Mercedes any one???[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]


I do not know if this is WAFFLE- Looking now at NYSE Prologis Inc (PLD) "117.37B $usd Market cap"
Never ever take investment advice from fools like me!!!!!! I do not own any and many not!!!!!!

I do hold a little Quantumscape market cap 4.15b $usd- I said never take investment advice from[bighmmm]

Triva I never heard of "MAHLE is a leading international development partner and supplier to the automotive industry with customers in both passenger car and commercial vehicle sectors. Founded in 1920, the technology group is working on the climate-neutral mobility of tomorrow, with a focus on the strategic areas of electrification and thermal management as well as further technology fields to reduce CO2 emissions, such as fuel cells or highly efficient combustion engines that also run on hydrogen or synthetic fuels. Today, one in every two vehicles globally is equipped with MAHLE components.
MAHLE generated sales of more than EUR 12 billion in 2022. The company is represented with approx. 72,000 employees at 152 production locations and 12 major research and development centers in more than 30 countries. (as of 31.12.2022)
#weshapefuturemobility"

Clearly I am slow[biggrin]

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/...=768&h=432&m=6
Tesla Cybertruck Spotted With Calibration Equipment In California

its not pretty![bigwhistle]

A decent wrap will fix it…..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...72bc3a1cc2.jpg

This is interesting "(Reuters) - A group of major automakers on Wednesday said they were forming a new company to provide electric vehicle charging in the United States in a challenge to Tesla and a bid to take advantage of Biden administration subsidies.
The group includes General Motors, Stellantis, Hyundai Motor and its Kia affiliate, Honda, BMW and Mercedes Benz , brands representing about half of U.S. vehicle sales but a small share of the EV market dominated by Tesla."
Link
Eletric Jesus will not be pleased[bigwhistle]

Wish but doubt that on the cards here yet.

EDIT- EU just topped this one with "EU Passes Law Requiring EV Fast Chargers Every 37 Miles On Major Highways

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Who get to pay for the EU ones ?

Wow, someone’s going to make some money laying mega watts of power cables along the freeways. Cost would be bonkers expensive. All well and good mandating such thing but as you say - who’s putting their hands in their pockets to the tune of billions of euros.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Yep - 'Please don't buy an EV now' roughly translates to 'we've dropped the ball on this one and have nothing to offer you in the near future but our crappy diesels and ancient hybrid tech'

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It's a standard toyota playbook. Generate as much FUD as possible and hope they can persuade enough people to buy what they sell.

The problem is every new ICE vehicle on the road is with us for a long time. It's something that should be avoided where possible because we don't want to be in a place where we are paying people to scrap cars before their time.

GM, Toyota, & FCA Are Beyond Redemption — This Is Too Much! - CleanTechnica

I don’t think any Australian government would have the balls to force a car off the roads or even legislate to make it harder to keep them on the road. Australians have a live of the Automobile they’ll die to protect.

Remember when they just wanted motor cycles to have their headlights on when being ridden - I think when Jeff Kennett held the reigns - even he backed off when the lobby groups assembled and the **** hit the fan.

Imagine if someone was brave enough to come out and say ‘You’ve got 5 years before you have to have an EV’ or even ‘cars older than 10 years will start incurring higher rego fees’

They’d be a public hanging…