EV general discussion

It is ironic that as EVs are much more efficient at converting energy into motion, and ICEs are so inefficient, that the ICE is impacted less by external factors (like cold weather, towing, and high speed).

In real terms an ICE still wastes 60-80% of the energy consumed - most of it lost as heat, and so the impacts of cold weather, towing, and high speed is proportionally less on an ICE compared to an EV.

So whilst it is true an EV becomes less efficient under certain conditions, an ICE is less efficient under all conditions - we just accept that most of the energy is wasted. And we have become so used to this, most of us will even disable the auto stop/start function when stationary and idling.

Don’t get me wrong - I am a big time energy waster and would happily own a V8 4WD. Privilege has its benefits. But I can appreciate the irony that EVs are so much more efficient under normal conditions that we are quick to criticise their performance under extreme conditions where the energy usage is more like - dare I say it - an ICE.

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Originally Posted by 4bee

ICE still requires (in most cases)an electric pump to stick the fuel in at the local Servo..

Jerries
Always find a couple of ex Army 20 litre Jerries in my well ventilated shed, mainly for the rideon & as car reserve & Genset.

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It does. And the local servos have gensets to allow this.

(Or I go to the mine/port and fuel from their tank)

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

It is ironic that as EVs are much more efficient at converting energy into motion, and ICEs are so inefficient, that the ICE is impacted less by external factors (like cold weather, towing, and high speed).

In real terms an ICE still wastes 60-80% of the energy consumed - most of it lost as heat, and so the impacts of cold weather, towing, and high speed is proportionally less on an ICE compared to an EV.

So whilst it is true an EV becomes less efficient under certain conditions, an ICE is less efficient under all conditions - we just accept that most of the energy is wasted. And we have become so used to this, most of us will even disable the auto stop/start function when stationary and idling.

Don’t get me wrong - I am a big time energy waster and would happily own a V8 4WD. Privilege has its benefits. But I can appreciate the irony that EVs are so much more efficient under normal conditions that we are quick to criticise their performance under extreme conditions where the energy usage is more like - dare I say it - an ICE.

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You’re 100% right.

What I and many I discuss it with also dislike about an EV (the major dislike) is:

When I buy an ICE vehicle, and let’s assume I’ll keep it 10 years, it states the following:

Fuel consumption ~X litres / 100km
Fuel tank size (usable) - Y litres

Very quickly that can be converted to real world averages. So 10l/100km avg and 80 litre usable is 800 odd (avg) and an owner will know how it’s impacted by head winds, towing etc very quickly.

Even as that engine wears over time, these fuel figures really don’t change.

Then there’s an EV -
Range is quoted (always a lie)
Battery capacity is quoted

Quickly and owner can work it out, however they need to factor in a cold/hot day, HVAC consumption etc.

All good - kinda!


What doesn’t happen to the ICE owner is the equivalent of somebody coming along each year, bashing the bottom of the tank in by 10 litres (example only) and saying “your vehicle now only has a 70 litre tank this year”

A phone battery degrading over 12-18 months by 5-10% is frustrating enough. That can be augmented by slightly inconvenient power bricks. Cannot do such with an EV.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

It does. And the local servos have gensets to allow this.

(Or I go to the mine/port and fuel from their tank)

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Hello Tombie,

Somewhere I noticed that you have mentioned a Honda EU22i generator. Can you please tell me what you can run on it when there is a complete black out? Cheers

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Originally Posted by Tombie

You’re 100% right.

What I and many I discuss it with also dislike about an EV (the major dislike) is:

When I buy an ICE vehicle, and let’s assume I’ll keep it 10 years, it states the following:

Fuel consumption ~X litres / 100km
Fuel tank size (usable) - Y litres

Very quickly that can be converted to real world averages. So 10l/100km avg and 80 litre usable is 800 odd (avg) and an owner will know how it’s impacted by head winds, towing etc very quickly.

Even as that engine wears over time, these fuel figures really don’t change.

Then there’s an EV -
Range is quoted (always a lie)
Battery capacity is quoted

Quickly and owner can work it out, however they need to factor in a cold/hot day, HVAC consumption etc.

All good - kinda!


What doesn’t happen to the ICE owner is the equivalent of somebody coming along each year, bashing the bottom of the tank in by 10 litres (example only) and saying “your vehicle now only has a 70 litre tank this year”

A phone battery degrading over 12-18 months by 5-10% is frustrating enough. That can be augmented by slightly inconvenient power bricks. Cannot do such with an EV.

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Yes - over time an EV’s battery degrades by 1.5-2% a year - but still uses energy more efficiently albeit with reduced range. Perfectly suitable for 80% of the cars used around metro areas, and when the batteries hit 80% capacity after 10-15 years (possibly even 20 years if looked after) could always be replaced and repurposed as house batteries.

Of course with an ICE we are still carrying and using more fuel which 60% of the energy will never be used for propulsion. So add 20% more battery capacity to offset this degradation (but try to avoid using frequently) and you are still ahead on energy usage.

The ICE also has other downsides, but still has plenty of other benefits as well which the EV can’t compete with (yet). The manufacturers calling for a mixed fuel strategy have it right, and the US and China will keep ICEs in the mix for many decades to come. Good thing for us is in Australia we will see more options than say Europe.

Meanwhile EV and battery technology will continue to improve. Within a decade the technology will change a lot and it will almost be a no-brainer to have at least one EV in our personal fleets.

Now a twin turbo V6 petrol hybrid (PHEV), with a 50km EV range and V2L/V2H capability in a 4WD (either dual cab ute or 5 door wagon) would interest me today.

Being able to do short trips around town on battery only, having the power boost in hybrid mode when accelerating or over-taking, an on-board battery that can be charged off the grid (or ideally used for home solar storage) that is able to power the house for a day, or ability to go off-grid camping for weeks, would be a very nice technology mix.

Then in 10 years time you upgrade the battery to solid state to get 100km EV range, and hope petrol is still affordable when you need the extended range.

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Originally Posted by Old Farang

Hello Tombie,

Somewhere I noticed that you have mentioned a Honda EU22i generator. Can you please tell me what you can run on it when there is a complete black out? Cheers

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The most important thing is that an EU22 will run my coffee machine. [emoji106]

Beyond that I’m not too fussed. [emoji4]

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Originally Posted by Old Farang

Hello Tombie,

Somewhere I noticed that you have mentioned a Honda EU22i generator. Can you please tell me what you can run on it when there is a complete black out? Cheers

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Good guide here: Generator Sizing Guide

I use the EU22i to run a 385L fridge/freezer, a seperate small portable 65L freezer, lighting, and a pedestal fan during outages in summer.

What I like about the unit is it is fairly quiet.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Good guide here: Generator Sizing Guide

I use the EU22i to run a 385L fridge/freezer, a seperate small portable 65L freezer, lighting, and a pedestal fan during outages in summer.

What I like about the unit is it is fairly quiet.

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That's a perfect use case. Being serious, yes a couple of fridges/freezers as they draw bugger all, some lighting if needed, chargers/computer and a couple of fans would be fine of a 2200. Can also run a microwave if needed or a coffee machine as mentioned - but not all at the same time. My Breville Coffee machine maxes it out. The microwave hits it quite hard too but you'd be able to run your fridges and a microwave at the same time. They are easy to move around as well - the 3KVA Honda is significantly bigger and needs to be on wheels so for most essential items, the 2200 is the go IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Old Farang

Hello Tombie,

Somewhere I noticed that you have mentioned a Honda EU22i generator. Can you please tell me what you can run on it when there is a complete black out? Cheers

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As per other responses, we have a cut over switch on the main board. Conveniently next to the boat.

Tap an extended run time hose to the boat tank…

Then switch house power over and run just the following:
(We have 2 EU22s so pair them if we want more)

Single generator:
- 400l fridge freezer
- TV
- Internet
- 1x ceiling fan
- Instant gas HWS

If we run both linked we can add one of the AC units

Thanks for all the replies. I should have been more clear in asking!

I am a qualified industrial electrician and marine engineer and have been around generators all my life. From 32 volt up to 6kV, both as an electrician and chief engineer on ships and oil rigs, and project engineer in the oilfields. I originally served a 5 year apprenticeship as an electrical fitter / armature winder in the days when we repaired everything from electric shavers to big AC motors from the mines. A lot of my working life has been on big variable speed DC drives long before the advent of inverter AC drives.

I asked because of all the misleading rubbish posted by sellers of small generators that do not know the basic difference between KvA and kW's. I just want a small generator as a back up exactly as has been posted, for my house. I tend to believe what Honda claim, as against the endless other ones advertised, plus the reliability. At more than double the price of some of them I would like to be sure that I am not just paying for a nameplate. Cheers