Thread: One for the fridgies

Originally Posted by rick130

I had to programme the driver for a Carel valve at Cooma ex-servicemans four years ago, similar to the setup on setup blower.
Carel EXV and Copeland Digital scroll on the glycol system!

Don't ask me to do it now!

Of course not, but but but, just how did you do it?

Originally Posted by V8Ian

With the possessions we've accurated and all the advantages of modern life.
Image having to move car windows by twirling one of those old fashioned, bent stick thingies.

.......or even shoving a larger bent stick thing beneath the radiator & twirling like ****ery.

Originally Posted by Old Farang

I tend to agree about the electronics and whether or not it makes for better systems. But in this case it is not the fault of the electronics, but the so called "technicians" working on it. I have worked with many Americans on systems like this, and it does not surprise me one little bit. In this case, according to the poster, several different bods have attacked it, with each one of them adding to the problem! A case of not being able to see the tree for the leaves. Also be aware, a black wire is most often a "hot" conductor, or active if you speak English!(BLM does not know about this yet)

I noticed the scroll compressor. Not a fan of these things I'm afraid. Had endless problems with them failing offshore when used in air cons. Cut one open one time and it appeared to be poor lubrication was the main cause of failures.

I have not had anything to do with electronic TX valves, but the theory points to them being much more accurate than the old type. Quick response is also something new to me, as is his fancy electronic gauges!

The stuff Rick is working is very complicated,it needs electronics to operate correctly.

For a normal standard cold/freezer set up,and many other applications,we have no problem with a standard Danfoss TX valve,and solenoid.Out of the hundreds we fit each year,we don't adjust one,sized correctly,no issues at all.Thats the TEX range,not the TUA,for those that know the range.For larger gear we generally use the good old Sporlan,no issues there either.Some AC units we use Alco,or Emerson,as they are called today,but they don't last long and can be a PITA.Only use them if we have to.

Evaporators with the electronic TEV,generally cost $450 to $700 more than one that we fit a Danfoss TEX to,so our thoughts are waste of money.Solenoid and coil,around $100.Electronic TEX also need a 240V feed,so ok in cold room,can use the feed that goes to the fans,but need to run a new feed for freezers,which can be a PITA.

As for scroll compressors,we find them extremely reliable and robust.Maybe they have been improved in the last 20yrs or so.Biggest problem is breaking pipes,but usually thats because the mounts have come loose or some other issue,or the compresser is shagged.

Originally Posted by Old Farang

I tend to agree about the electronics and whether or not it makes for better systems. But in this case it is not the fault of the electronics, but the so called "technicians" working on it. I have worked with many Americans on systems like this, and it does not surprise me one little bit. In this case, according to the poster, several different bods have attacked it, with each one of them adding to the problem! A case of not being able to see the tree for the leaves. Also be aware, a black wire is most often a "hot" conductor, or active if you speak English!(BLM does not know about this yet)

I noticed the scroll compressor. Not a fan of these things I'm afraid. Had endless problems with them failing offshore when used in air cons. Cut one open one time and it appeared to be poor lubrication was the main cause of failures.

I have not had anything to do with electronic TX valves, but the theory points to them being much more accurate than the old type. Quick response is also something new to me, as is his fancy electronic gauges!

The big problem with scrolls is the limited oil capacity.

A little short of refrigerant, suction pressure drops, the oil foams and.....

I learnt about this in the early 90's on large ice makers with Trane scrolls (12.5 tonnes/day)

They handle liquid really well, but short of gas and they seize.

Originally Posted by scarry

The stuff Rick is working is very complicated,it needs electronics to operate correctly.

For a normal standard cold/freezer set up,and many other applications,we have no problem with a standard Danfoss TX valve,and solenoid.Out of the hundreds we fit each year,we don't adjust one,sized correctly,no issues at all.Thats the TEX range,not the TUA,for those that know the range.For larger gear we generally use the good old Sporlan,no issues there either.Some AC units we use Alco,or Emerson,as they are called today,but they don't last long and can be a PITA.Only use them if we have to.

Evaporators with the electronic TEV,generally cost $450 to $700 more than one that we fit a Danfoss TEX to,so our thoughts are waste of money.Solenoid and coil,around $100.Electronic TEX also need a 240V feed,so ok in cold room,can use the feed that goes to the fans,but need to run a new feed for freezers,which can be a PITA.

As for scroll compressors,we find them extremely reliable and robust.Maybe they have been improved in the last 20yrs or so.Biggest problem is breaking pipes,but usually thats because the mounts have come loose or some other issue,or the compresser is shagged.

Quite probably the latter. If the donk is shagged then it ain't going to be very reliable, roight?

Originally Posted by rick130

The big problem with scrolls is the limited oil capacity.

A little short of refrigerant, suction pressure drops, the oil foams and.....

I learnt about this in the early 90's on large ice makers with Trane scrolls (12.5 tonnes/day)

They handle liquid really well, but short of gas and they seize.

They also don't like that oil additive that we use on rare occasions,so we can use R407c on systems with mineral oil.The name of it has disappeared out of my brain for the moment

Had the occasional failure with scrolls using it,but never on recips.

Originally Posted by Old Farang

I tend to agree about the electronics and whether or not it makes for better systems. But in this case it is not the fault of the electronics, but the so called "technicians" working on it. I have worked with many Americans on systems like this, and it does not surprise me one little bit. In this case, according to the poster, several different bods have attacked it, with each one of them adding to the problem! A case of not being able to see the tree for the leaves. Also be aware, a black wire is most often a "hot" conductor, or active if you speak English!(BLM does not know about this yet)

I noticed the scroll compressor. Not a fan of these things I'm afraid. Had endless problems with them failing offshore when used in air cons. Cut one open one time and it appeared to be poor lubrication was the main cause of failures.

I have not had anything to do with electronic TX valves, but the theory points to them being much more accurate than the old type. Quick response is also something new to me, as is his fancy electronic gauges!

The company I work for makes quite good commercial AC systems that work in with the heat recovery systems in large commercial AC applications, but they need the controls setup correctly to achieve the efficiencies the customer is looking for.

We have a quite brilliant commissioner that optimises the controls on initial setup using an Emerson E2 Einstein controller.

A few times now 'energy efficiency' companies have sold their 'expertise'' to the customer, modified the programming and occasionally smashed compressors.
We've then had to come back in, get Sheldon to reprogram the controls (at vast expense) and get it all back to rights.
Yes, his name really is Sheldon.

I was playing with one this arvo.
Brilliant bits of gear. When a tech hasn't ****ed it up.

Originally Posted by scarry

The stuff Rick is working is very complicated,it needs electronics to operate correctly.

For a normal standard cold/freezer set up,and many other applications,we have no problem with a standard Danfoss TX valve,and solenoid.Out of the hundreds we fit each year,we don't adjust one,sized correctly,no issues at all.Thats the TEX range,not the TUA,for those that know the range.For larger gear we generally use the good old Sporlan,no issues there either.Some AC units we use Alco,or Emerson,as they are called today,but they don't last long and can be a PITA.Only use them if we have to.

Evaporators with the electronic TEV,generally cost $450 to $700 more than one that we fit a Danfoss TEX to,so our thoughts are waste of money.Solenoid and coil,around $100.Electronic TEX also need a 240V feed,so ok in cold room,can use the feed that goes to the fans,but need to run a new feed for freezers,which can be a PITA.

As for scroll compressors,we find them extremely reliable and robust.Maybe they have been improved in the last 20yrs or so.Biggest problem is breaking pipes,but usually thats because the mounts have come loose or some other issue,or the compresser is shagged.

The opposite mob to 'the fresh food people' went back to mechanical/thermostatic valves after using Danfoss pulse valves.
Too many problems, although the pulse valves don't seem too bad in my experience, we don't seen to have too many issues.
The German owned mob use them in their older stores, too.

The latest 'the fresh food people' installs are using Carel EXV's on the cases, Emerson iPro controllers on the racks (which we hate) and E2's to control case parameters.
Waste of the capabilities of an E2 IMO.