Thread: Cyclists.

Originally Posted by Saitch

Not so much an issue in a 60k zone.
Come out to where I live & try & come to grips with a group, or more often than not, groups, of riders on a hilly, rural 100kph road with a fair bit of heavy vehicle use with, say, four safe overtaking sections in 30 klms, even with the new rules in Qld, where, because of the terrain,the cyclists' speeds are rather slow. Unless in an high powered vehicle it's bloody dangerous. I pity the poor old local bus driver, plant operators with truck & dog, produce, cattle trucks etc.
Perhaps cyclists should be restricted to roads up to 70k only? This would cover the majority of fair dinkum cyclists who use their cycle for legitimate transport such as getting to work, school, train station etc & not for egotistical gratification.
Steve

Couldn't agree more.

A few years back, I was working in heavy haulage, and was escorting a 100 tonne float with a large dozer on a rural road east of Perth (between The Lakes and York for those who know the area). This is a reasonably windy and hilly road in sections - the normal speed limit is 110 km/hr (80 km/hr for oversize loads). The road was at the time the main "Designated Heavy Haulage Route" heading east of Perth, and was clearly signposted as such.

We came across a "pack" of these lycra clad ******* and I tried (politely at first) to get them to move over to allow the oversize load to overtake them - nothing doing - they were not going to move for anyone.

Any truck drivers who have ever driven anything this size and weight will understand the implications of coming across something like this on a hilly road where there are no opportunities to overtake - with a wide load stuck behind a group of slow moving cyclists, and a build-up of other traffic stuck behind the wide load, the situation rapidly became quite frustrating and potentially very dangerous.

I won't go into detail here about how the group of cyclists was "moved" off the road - but moved they eventually were.

An interesting article (from an RAF pilot) concerning vision, and how it affects driving and cycling:

Our eyes were not designed for driving

We are the result of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. Our eyes, and the way that our brain processes the images that they receive, are very well suited to creeping up on unsuspecting antelopes and spotting threats such as sabre-toothed tigers.
These threats are largely gone and they've been replaced by vehicles travelling towards us at high speeds. This, we've not yet adapted to deal with.

Some recommendations

Drivers:

• Slow down on the approach of a roundabout or junction. Even if the road seems empty. Changing speed will allow you to see vehicles that would otherwise be invisible to you.
• A glance is never enough. You need to be as methodical and deliberate as a fighter pilot would be. Focus on at least 3 different spots along the road to the right and left. Search close, middle-distance and far. With practise, this can be accomplished quickly, and each pause is only for a fraction of a second. Fighter pilots call this a ?lookout scan? and it is vital to their survival.
• Always look right and left at least twice. This doubles your chance of seeing a vehicle.
• Make a point of looking next to the windscreen pillars. Better still, lean forward slightly as you look right and left so that you are looking around the door pillars. Be aware that the pillar nearest to you blocks more of your vision. Fighter pilots say ?Move your head ? or you're dead?.
• Clear your flight path! When changing lanes, check your mirrors and as a last check, look directly at the spot which are going to manoeuvre.
• Drive with your lights on. Bright vehicles or clothing is always easier to spot than dark colours that don't contrast with a scene.
• It is especially difficult to spot bicycles, motorbikes and pedestrians during low sun conditions as contrast is reduced.
• Keep your windscreen clean ? seeing other vehicles is enough of a challenge without a dirty windscreen. You never see a fighter jet with a dirty canopy.
• Finally, don't be a clown ? if you are looking at your mobile telephone then you are incapable of seeing much else. Not only are you probably looking down into your lap, but your eyes are focused at less then one metre and every object at distance will be out of focus. Even when you look up and out, it takes a fraction of a second for your eyes to adjust ? this is time you may not have.

Cyclists and motorcyclists:

• Recognise the risk of being in a saccade. High contrast clothing and lights help. In particular, flashing LED's (front and rear) are especially effective for cyclists as they create contrast and the on-off flashing attracts the peripheral vision in the same manner that movement does. There's nothing wrong with leaving these on during the day. (Especially if they are rechargeable)
• The relatively slower speed of bicycles means that they will be closer to a point of collision if a vehicle begins to pull into their path. Turn this to advantage ? when passing junctions, look at the head of the driver that is approaching or has stopped. The head of the driver will naturally stop and centre upon you if you have been seen. If the driver's head sweeps through you without pausing, then the chances are that you are in a saccade ? you must assume that you have not been seen and expect the driver to pull out!
• Recognise that with a low sun, a dirty windscreen or one with rain beating against it drivers are likely to have less of a chance of seeing you.
• Take a cycle training course ? this will teach you where you need to be positioned on the road, how to use your eyesight to make sure drivers pay you attention and other useful techniques that can minimise dangers. See: How to make your next bike ride safer than the last.

What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road

All road users can improve their behaviour to aid safety.

Originally Posted by Rurover

Yeah, not just the cyclists Mick.
We're all a bit smarter this side of the border!!

Alan

Indeed

Adelaide police catch man riding a 'motorised esky' without a driver's licence | Daily Mail Online

The thread that keeps on giving

Originally Posted by BMKal

We came across a "pack" of these lycra clad ******* and I tried (politely at first) to get them to move over to allow the oversize load to overtake them - nothing doing - they were not going to move for anyone.

And this is the reason why we hate them. As I have said numerous times, the one riding to work is ok

Originally Posted by BMKal

I won't go into detail here about how the group of cyclists was "moved" off the road - but moved they eventually were.

I wish you would, although I can imagine.

Drivers:

• Slow down on the approach of a roundabout or junction. Even if the road seems empty. Changing speed will allow you to see vehicles that would otherwise be invisible to you.
• Good advice

• A glance is never enough. You need to be as methodical and deliberate as a fighter pilot would be. Focus on at least 3 different spots along the road to the right and left.
• When driving through a shopping centre at 40 kph yes I do. Driving in an area where Kangaroos hang out, yes. Other parts of the highway I want to relax. I am driving a car, not an FA18.

• Search close, middle-distance and far. With practise, this can be accomplished quickly, and each pause is only for a fraction of a second. Fighter pilots call this a ?lookout scan? and it is vital to their survival.
• Again I am in a car, not FA18.

• Always look right and left at least twice. This doubles your chance of seeing a vehicle.
• Good advice.
  
• Make a point of looking next to the windscreen pillars. Better still, lean forward slightly as you look right and left so that you are looking around the door pillars. Be aware that the pillar nearest to you blocks more of your vision. Fighter pilots say ?Move your head ? or you're dead?.
• Do this when circumstances dictate it is necessary.

• Clear your flight path! When changing lanes, check your mirrors and as a last check, look directly at the spot which are going to manoeuvre.
• When moving right, RH mirror is ok. Going left, I check LH miror and then check rear vision mirror. If the same car is in both I go.
• Drive with your lights on. Bright vehicles or clothing is always easier to spot than dark colours that don't contrast with a scene.
• Good advice
  
• It is especially difficult to spot bicycles, motorbikes and pedestrians during low sun conditions as contrast is reduced.
• Der. I think we all know this.
  
• Keep your windscreen clean ? seeing other vehicles is enough of a challenge without a dirty windscreen. You never see a fighter jet with a dirty canopy.
• A dirty windscreen, in my case is usually caused by insects. I don't think insects would be a problem at 40,000 feet, but hey, how would I know, I don't fly.
• Finally, don't be a clown ? if you are looking at your mobile telephone then you are incapable of seeing much else. Not only are you probably looking down into your lap, but your eyes are focused at less then one metre and every object at distance will be out of focus. Even when you look up and out, it takes a fraction of a second for your eyes to adjust ? this is time you may not have.
• This one is a no brainer.
  

Originally Posted by BMKal

Couldn't agree more.

A few years back, I was working in heavy haulage, and was escorting a 100 tonne float with a large dozer on a rural road east of Perth (between The Lakes and York for those who know the area). This is a reasonably windy and hilly road in sections - the normal speed limit is 110 km/hr (80 km/hr for oversize loads). The road was at the time the main "Designated Heavy Haulage Route" heading east of Perth, and was clearly signposted as such.

We came across a "pack" of these lycra clad ******* and I tried (politely at first) to get them to move over to allow the oversize load to overtake them - nothing doing - they were not going to move for anyone.

Any truck drivers who have ever driven anything this size and weight will understand the implications of coming across something like this on a hilly road where there are no opportunities to overtake - with a wide load stuck behind a group of slow moving cyclists, and a build-up of other traffic stuck behind the wide load, the situation rapidly became quite frustrating and potentially very dangerous.

I won't go into detail here about how the group of cyclists was "moved" off the road - but moved they eventually were.

Was it a sanctioned event or a single group of riders? The reason I ask is I used to participate in some of the Cyclosportif rides with a group of fellow cycle commuters from work. One year when we were doing the Swan Valley ride the police had not communicated with each other and you had the situation of a wide load with a police escort and about 900 cyclists trying to occupy the same part of road. Our event was sanctioned by the police but unfortunately a wide load with a police escort had been scheduled for the same time.

We were not impressed as we paid good money and these events are run with traffic marshal's etc to ensure smooth running and yes we have an expectation of clear roads during these events due to the volume of cyclists and danger of stop/starts with the many participants.

I know they run one out of York which I have never participated in.

I stopped doing these events cos I got fed-up with the attitude of the A-grade riders expecting they had right of way and not following the event rules in regard to passing slower groups.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

No they wouldn't.

Driving too slowly is not Law in Australia although it is in some other countries.
Lotz-a , there is a rule on this in the forum, something about personal opinon v reality and backing your arguments. Rule 125-128 obstructions NSW RMS, but 30 secs of goggle is to hard?
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/...ts-general.pdf

Increased fuel use is not a consideration in road management. In fact I was at a party some years ago and the topic got on to syncronisation of traffic lights (or lack thereof) and how it only adds to driver frustration and increased fuel use and the morons who manage it. One of the people in the group piped up and said: "well that would be me then" he was one of the mythical RTA employees who control traffic light synchronisation. His information was that their instructions from the road safety committees was that they were to limit the number of consecutive green lights that a motorist encounters. The reason was that consecutive green lights encourages speeding and increasing red lights "calmed" the traffic. I have no idea if the committee's instructions were based upon research or the opinion of individuals like Harold Scruby who seem to populate committees such as these.

The major issue I see as a difference between Oz and the E.U is a large section of the city cyclists go out with full intent and knowledge that they are going to slow traffic and purposefully annoy and obstruct other motorists.
Now im sorry but in your field your trying to tell us you have never seen a person who has either been rear ended or distracted and hit 1-2 cars in front after the traffic they where behind have slowed/stopped or swerved because of cyclists?


Just last week peak time on the 4 lane Hwy, 60kph clearways 7-9am and the MAMIL has decided to stop in the middle of the left hand lane to take a phone call. I'm about 10 cars back in the right hand lane, the bus swerves around him and then I see what is going on and slow up with all the cars swinging in and out of their lanes to get around the git. There was a large driveway within 10m of him both in front and behind with a nice grass area under a tree. But he's quite happy to block and cause a prang elsewhere. Go and read about the flow on effect of a car slowing in flowing busy traffic, it causes people to stop 100m-1km+ back from where they actually slowed, which causes accidents.

What is a MAMIL?