Thread: Holden - how long before the end?

Originally Posted by Eevo

your opinion/entitlements have too sold off overseas.

As a well known Australian said, ..."Please Explain".
Pickles.

As a relatively unknown grey haired foreign born , I would say anything is for sale, be it material or information. As far as vehicles manufactured it is only what the cost cutters tell the buying puplic what they want , not what the various end users envisage.
What interests me is the police and politicians seem to require front engine , rear wheel drive , but the general public only get front wheel drive? Matters not where the build takes place.

Front wheel drive and front biased all wheel drive is for when you have no more than about 75hp. I say it in hp because it reflects the fact that it is outdated. Horses need not and should not be pulling chariots anymore.

I’ll preface these comments by saying I don’t like FWD - it’s dirty and wrong. However...

It is capable of handling a hell of a lot more than 75hp. Have a look at the power outputs of the previous Focus RS and the Hyundai i30N, around 300 and 270hp respectively. Also have a look at R3 spec rally cars. These things only have around 200hp but are bloody quick and handle extremely well, even on gravel.

For your average road car FWD makes a lot of sense, with significant savings in weight and space required. Plus for drivers whose skills perhaps aren’t up there with Ari Vatanen’s, the handling is generally far more benign.

Cheers
Jon

Originally Posted by jon3950

I’ll preface these comments by saying I don’t like FWD - it’s dirty and wrong. However...

It is capable of handling a hell of a lot more than 75hp. Have a look at the power outputs of the previous Focus RS and the Hyundai i30N, around 300 and 270hp respectively. Also have a look at R3 spec rally cars. These things only have around 200hp but are bloody quick and handle extremely well, even on gravel.

For your average road car FWD makes a lot of sense, with significant savings in weight and space required. Plus for drivers whose skills perhaps aren’t up there with Ari Vatanen’s, the handling is generally far more benign.

Cheers
Jon

There was a local lass who won an advanced driving course in a newspaper promo about 15-20 years ago.
She aced the course, and about three weeks later rolled her car on the gravel road going home from work!

I was talking to her a few weeks later, and asked her what went wrong. She wasn't sure and said she had done everything the course taught her, but the car just "had a mind of it's own!" After asking her what she was driving, (Commodore) and what car the driving course used, (Ford Laser) I twigged that this so-called "advanced" course had never explained to the students the difference in handling characteristics, and emergency responses required between FWD and RWD cars! Unbelievable!

Originally Posted by donh54

There was a local lass who won an advanced driving course in a newspaper promo about 15-20 years ago.
She aced the course, and about three weeks later rolled her car on the gravel road going home from work!

I was talking to her a few weeks later, and asked her what went wrong. She wasn't sure and said she had done everything the course taught her, but the car just "had a mind of it's own!" After asking her what she was driving, (Commodore) and what car the driving course used, (Ford Laser) I twigged that this so-called "advanced" course had never explained to the students the difference in handling characteristics, and emergency responses required between FWD and RWD cars! Unbelievable!

Quite a few years ago the US police force went from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive patrol cars.


Many of the older officers could never get used to the way the front wheel drive vehicles handled,particularly at high speed,in pursuits, and had to be employed in other areas of the force.

Originally Posted by jon3950

I’ll preface these comments by saying I don’t like FWD - it’s dirty and wrong. However...

It is capable of handling a hell of a lot more than 75hp. Have a look at the power outputs of the previous Focus RS and the Hyundai i30N, around 300 and 270hp respectively. Also have a look at R3 spec rally cars. These things only have around 200hp but are bloody quick and handle extremely well, even on gravel.

For your average road car FWD makes a lot of sense, with significant savings in weight and space required. Plus for drivers whose skills perhaps aren’t up there with Ari Vatanen’s, the handling is generally far more benign.

Cheers
Jon

Agree, we did in fact buy a new "previous RS Focus" (300HP+!).....absolute ROCKETSHIP everywhere except initial take off, where 220KW & 440NM required some common sense!
Karen now drives an Audi RS3 Quattro, the "äbilities" of which greatly exceed any that she or I will ever be likely to achieve!
Pickles.

My point about fwd and front biased awd isnt that it cant be done at higher power levels, its that in my experience when you actually drive such vehicles near their limits of adhesion around corners you get funny steering effects, instability, etc. I admit to not having to my knowledge driven some of the newer vehicles with torque vectoring etc, but i apply maximum scepticism.

Fwd is done for reasons of cost and supposedly small fuel efficiency gains. So when someone tells me they have bought a fwd or front biased awd performance car, its an oxymoron, you have just bought a tarted up cheap car.

Vehicles made from the get go for performance are never fwd or front biased awd.