TopicToaster
SupporterReally, what's spooky about it, is the question it raises as to the validity that modern /recent and excessive Co2 output is causing the globe to warm up!Originally Posted by NavyDiver
global-10yr avg-temp.jpg
You should have added the 10 yr average trend line to show the true nature of the anomaly.
period ~1900 to 1940 shows the same rate of increase to global temps? why? was that CO2 as well?
As we're lead to believe by the climate geniuses, in the latter part of the industrial revolution(ie. this 1900-1940 period) aerosols(ie. smoke/particulates/soot) were supposedly the cause of the 1940's cooling period?
So what caused the first 40 year increase of about 0.5°C in this period?
The real spooky bit is why suddenly did it just stop? it's not like production simply stopped in it's tracks.
At about this time we also had an immensely wasteful war to contend with.
Those same climate geniuses say that the CO2 we've pumped into the atmosphere it's going to be there for hundreds, maybe thousands of years to come .. so the pause can't be related to human output.
We know this had to be probably the most excessively wasteful period of human kind, not just the war, but in terms of mobility .. think of the gas guzzlers that were kicking about in the day. 10x or more wasteful than todays more efficient and less polluting vehicles.
So, say there were 10 million vehicles on the road back in the 1950 period .. that would equate to about 100 million vehicles in todays more efficient terms.
Then again from 1980's to current(another 40 year period) we see the same rate of change as in the first 40 years of the 20th century.
Today we're are more efficient than back in 1900, so while we do use more, we probably don't use that much more than back then.
Burning wood was far more a common method to cook your dinner, heat your house ... just about everything way back in the day .. so the argument that we produce more Co2 now than back in the day is pure BS!
There is no way to estimate how much CO2 was being pumped into the climate back in the day .. just that we know each individual in that era would have sure outputted more, in way that can't ever be calculated.
So the data again doesn't lie, yet the non deniers still persist with the party line .. it's just that they can't explain why the pause?
If it were an anomalous pause .. say a decade or so .. but a 40 year pause? Really? What, someone just forgot to turn the thermostat for 40 years.
To say that climate scientists know what they're doing now is simply laughable ... 'checks and balances' are meaningless when they're corroborated by the same ideological priests!
The last thing of note to NavyDivers graph(and link) is to note(in the link) the average global rainfall graph .. similar to most of Aus .. again showing that rainfall has steadily been on the increase as global temp average climbs. Basically confirmation on a broader scale that warmer globe = more rainfall.
Also, if you view the seasonal averages in the temp data, summer in both equatorial halves of the globe have increase in average temp less than the other 3 seasons have.
ie. that the seasons appear to be 'stabilising' or becoming less variant. More data that seems to indicate less extreme weather events .. not more extreme!
And those seasonal variances aren't trivial either .. summer increases in the 0.7° range, whereas the winter averages are more like 1.0°C increases.
At this rate, in a few hundred years there may no longer be any more 'seasons' as we know them.
So is CO2 also changing the seasons? Is CO2 a selective 'pollutant'?
If CO2 were the reason that the sun is heating the atmosphere, and hence the globe, wouldn't it make more sense that when there is more solar radiation per hour/per day, the increase would be higher for that half of the globe ... not lower?
What the data shows is that with lower solar radiation periods, the average temps increase is higher.
Arthur.
All these discos are giving me a heart attack!
'99 D1 300Tdi Auto ( now sold :( )
'03 D2 Td5 Auto
'03 D2a Td5 Auto
TopicToaster
SupporterNot really understanding what the disagreement is?
Are you contradicting the scientific evidence that the Greenland icecores show a 3°C variance between 8200BP and 8000BP?
Or are you suggesting that a 3° increase in 200 years is somehow less dramatic than the current 1° increase in 100 years?
Arthur.
All these discos are giving me a heart attack!
'99 D1 300Tdi Auto ( now sold :( )
'03 D2 Td5 Auto
'03 D2a Td5 Auto
Super Moderator
He made that decision, against expert advice, himself.
If you don't like trucks, stop buying stuff.
Swaggie
I think the vast majority don't need to argue climate change. I started to read this thread, then actually found it sad and disappointing so disengaged with it, but do check in every now and then. Climate change is actually a peer reviewed science vs vested interests debate.
Likewise I don't bother debating if the earth is flat because the science is pretty unanimous on that too.
Cheers
Slunnie
~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~
Cynical Moi?
I understood his missus & daughter pushed him into doing it. Tomorrow I shall try to find the article, for now I'm off to beddy byes.
Master
Really just a church of deniers here. Don’t think I bother with this. Just some blokes searching the internet for some selective info that suits their position. Then drawing unsupported conclusions based on their personal biases.
If anyone disagrees with them they start to ramp it up to the individual level.
Not the slightest thing that is said here I think will change anyone’s mind.
Seems a fair people like this in the 4wd community, scared of losing use of trucks I guess.
Glad I got into cycling, doesn’t worry me so much if I can’t drive around in big 4wd so much now when the changes come.
Super Moderator
All I'm seeing is discussion of opposing views. If you're concerned that there are genuine personal attacks, or any other breaches of the conditions of access, please report them, using the triangle icon at the bottom of the page.
If you don't like trucks, stop buying stuff.
OldBushie
I would have thought there are very few deniers in here actually.
There are “those completely onboard with what they are told” & those who are reading as much as possible to understand and interpret what information is out there.
Certainly nobody in here is denying that the climate is changing. That’s a given.
What is being asked by some is understanding of the multitudes of questions it poses.
I doubt anyone here is concerned their 4wd is going to be ordered to be parked up as an ornament.
What is interesting is to pose the following questions:
- If it’s as bad as they say, why are those who absolutely agree still driving ICE vehicles.
- Those same people; why do you still go 4wdriving? After all it’s recreational for most.
- what have those individuals given up?
- do you intend to have children and therefore contribute to the compounding effect?
- Do those individuals have a job/employment that sees them contributing to environmental damage?
- What do we do for all those people who depend on certain jobs? A large portion of car assembly workers are still unemployed.
- Do you live in a modern home? Technology? What are you willing to give up?
And...
- When you go camping; how do you keep warm? No more campfires for you
Some here may live less contributing lifestyles - although I doubt its of a level that makes an even marginal difference.
We should all aim to reduce unnecessary waste of any type, we should strive for effective and sound industry.
What are people here willing to give up?
AT REST
Dear Ian, when our good friend Tombie posts this:
it can be construed as a personal insult. Fundamental science is NOT a belief system, except when viewed by someone with no scientific education. The science of global warming through increasing levels of CO2 has been fully understood for well over a century. Even Exxon Mobil knew this over 30 years ago, and no credible climate scientist denies it. Yet the uneducated yell "unproved", "personal beliefs" etc and pat themselves on the back for being good sceptics. This is part of the reason I hardly ever visit here any more, arguing with ignorant people gets too tiring.You mean when someone supporting your belief system comes out saying something that aligns with your stance.
Cheers and goodbye until my boredom levels rise too high again...
Wizard
Some changes have already come. Home solar and battery storage, good EVs, electric bikes, uber! Why don't you sell your big 4wd now?
For those who have an undeniable understanding of science and can see the urgency - what are you doing about it?
Who has made significant changes to their lifestyle to reduce their carbon footprint? Things like: sold cars, stopped flying, gone off grid, sending less to landfill, local produce only ... Any one?
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