Thread: 20" Nitto Terra Grapplers

Hi Terry

I fitted a set of these to my D4 in June just prior to our trip to Cooktown. Have now done over 5,500km and have to say I'm very pleased with them. As you have mentioned they are quite and responsive in their grip. As a sister brand of Toyo I think the compound used is softer than the american brand but I see that as a good thing.

Most of my Km's have been highway with only a little bit of dirt road (10%). No mud yet - it's been a bit dry around here. We were fully loaded and there is no sign of chipping. They felt like a heavier tyre than the previous Pirelli Zeros but I haven't checked the weight. The side walls seem thicker - what do you think?

I think the tread depth is probably a couple mm shallower than the Cooper LTZ but as you have said, for the price, they appear to be good.

Originally Posted by time2

Hi Terry

I fitted a set of these to my D4 in June just prior to our trip to Cooktown. Have now done over 5,500km and have to say I'm very pleased with them. As you have mentioned they are quite and responsive in their grip. As a sister brand of Toyo I think the compound used is softer than the american brand but I see that as a good thing.

Most of my Km's have been highway with only a little bit of dirt road (10%). No mud yet - it's been a bit dry around here. We were fully loaded and there is no sign of chipping. They felt like a heavier tyre than the previous Pirelli Zeros but I haven't checked the weight. The side walls seem thicker - what do you think?

I think the tread depth is probably a couple mm shallower than the Cooper LTZ but as you have said, for the price, they appear to be good.

Tread depth can be deceptive. I have 18" LTZs which look like they have heaps more tread depth than the 19" Scorpion ATRs I was running as road tyres. But on measuring there was bugger all in it. I think it was the space between the blocks that make the tread look deeper on the LTZs.

Originally Posted by time2

Hi Terry

Most of my Km's have been highway with only a little bit of dirt road (10%). No mud yet - it's been a bit dry around here. We were fully loaded and there is no sign of chipping. They felt like a heavier tyre than the previous Pirelli Zeros but I haven't checked the weight. The side walls seem thicker - what do you think?
.

hi Time2

From what I can tell yes the side walls seam thicker than the OEM Pirelli's. Done nearly 1500 k's on the Nitto's, so far so good.

Originally Posted by TerryO

hi Time2

From what I can tell yes the side walls seam thicker than the OEM Pirelli's. Done nearly 1500 k's on the Nitto's, so far so good.

Hi Terry,


Have you had them in a decent downpour yet, on the road? How did they perform?


As you have possibly gathered from some of my posts I've found the Scorpions (ATR) not quite as good in the wet as I would have liked.


Cheers,


Kev.

Hi Kev, from memory you had a scary aquaplaning moment on Pirellis? I have heard some people have a similar experiences in different car makes from the DSC kicking in while aquaplaning, turning the vehicle. Is that a possibility in your case?

Originally Posted by catsman

Hi Kev, from memory you had a scary aquaplaning moment on Pirellis? I have heard some people have a similar experiences in different car makes from the DSC kicking in while aquaplaning, turning the vehicle. Is that a possibility in your case?

Hi catsman,


Yes that's correct. Pirelli ATRs.


Are you thinking the reaction of the DSC caused the turn?


I'm not sure, I actually thought the DSC saved my life (or at least a very bad day), as it helped me recover the car from the situation.


At the time it seemed like the car just lifted in the water (lost contact with the road) and then I was aware of it turning, as in rotating. I was in a very slight turn, following the line of the road, at the time. I've been asked if I noticed a DSC or something light come on (In the dash) ... which I didn't, as I was looking directly at a concrete barrier.


It was then (after the rotation) that I was aware of the TC or sub-sets of that (DSC) (or the other way round) kicking in .... you could literally feel and hear the car react, it was very obvious. It probably is DSC but I think these systems are very integrated ... but for the discussion let's just say DSC ('cause I wouldn't know otherwise :-)). I'm pretty certain that didn't occur until the car had turned/rotated. I kept my foot off the brake and accelerator but turned the car towards my intended direction of travel. The DSC kicked in at each change of direction, doing what I felt was reducing the aggressiveness of the slide. In other words, each slide was tighter helping straighten the car. It appeared obvious to me that I was going to be OK after the first correction as I could feel the car quickly coming under control. It was very quick and there were only three corrections (getting smaller each time). It is possible that my input was actually hindering the recovery to a small extent .... as in the OMFG overcorrect!


I say the sequence is accurate with some conviction now as I've had the DSC react in the new D4 on a very slippery mud/gravel road at much lower speed (60kph and then 40 shortly afterwards). It was much quicker to react and recover than the older one ... or so it appeared. But the sensation was the same.....slide/rotate/recover. But once again, I'm certain the DSC didn't kick in until the car started turning. Even at 40kph I was well aware of the DSC kicking in.


Maybe with a slighter turn you'd feel less DSC input. I don't know the system well enough to understand the inputs to the DSC but I'm guessing what the wheels are doing would be one thing but I'm certain that sway is somehow detected. Aircraft use gyros and accelerometers, etc to achieve this, not sure what a D4 does. However, there must be something and the existence of Trailer Stability Control would suggest that the car is aware of sway. I doubt the sway in this case (before the slide) would have been any greater than a slight turn in normal circumstances (on a dry road) but maybe the lack of wheel reference due to the aquaplane did trigger something?


I was thinking the tyres bit in a fraction after the aquaplane (which would have induced a rotation due to the curved road) causing an aggressive change in direction. I'm certain the car was sliding up the road sideways but was still heading towards the wall. Heading towards the wall is a given as my car completely changed lanes, but I'm sure it was still sliding sideways as well. Does that make sense?


I don't want to pooh pooh the ATRs as I thought they were a great tyre originally. Very strong and capable....punching way above their weight off-road too. But I've read a few very similar stories now about them. Obviously if you were driving muddies or slicks you'd expect a traction issue in the wet but what really scared me was the lack of warning.....one sec beautiful, next sec ... OMFG. On tight corners (roundabouts) I felt they were a bit skittish in the wet but wasn't overly concerned until this occurred.


The extremity of the circumstances could have been circumstantial but since now driving on OEM Wranglers again with the new D4, I'm not aware of any issues in the wet.


It might just be the fact that I got the crap scared out of me but I don't think I'd buy them again. In all honesty if it had just been my experience I'd probably force myself to overcome that lack of confidence but since reading more reports, I'll be looking for alternates when the Wranglers are done. I think there are a lot of guys on this forum running Scorpion ATRs, so if they are not reporting a trend maybe it just has been circumstance for a few drivers ... it happens.


You'd think the DSC is designed to do what it I think it did and since the cars would have been tested in the UK, you'd assume rain would have been taken into consideration .... wouldn't you?


Not sure if that helped.


Cheers,


Kev.

So far the Nitto's are pretty good, not exceptional though. In heavy rain they can track a bit if there is a lot of surface water.

Not at all unhappy I bought them, especially at that price. Don't know what they are like off road yet though.

Kev.
Not D3/D4 related but I've been running Pirellis for the last 45k kms on my D2, including in some torrential downpours and I've never had it step out at all.
Keep in mind I'm still a green P plater (until 3pm today ) so I like to drive enthusiastically
Not sure if the different systems/tyre size on a later model disco would have an impact on how they go in the wet.