EV general discussion

Yes, one of my pet peeves is some in the EV community (none here thankfully) spruiking that everyone should run out and get one when most can't come close to affording one - a lot more would if they had the means or the prices were closer to be comparable I'm sure but they are simply a pipe dream to most having this all shoved in their faces day in and day out.

The world isn't going to be saved by EV's when so few can afford them that's for sure, and in reality you would want a decent solar and battery setup at home to go along with it, so another $20 to $30K for that to make it closer to being 'green'

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

So all you need is about 15 years' worth of services and fuel to cover the difference in initial cost between an ICE car and the EV.

Please do not quote how "cheap" it is to own an EV when you are given subsidies by stupid governments promoting coal fired vehicles which embody slavery of children in their components.

About 80% of the population cannot afford EV purchase prices.ie those earning under 100K who are being screwed by government policy again .
Regards PhilipA

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I remember the same arguments about cost of ownership being used a decade ago for diesel vs petrol. People on this forum would argue the higher up front cost of a diesel would take more than a decade to be offset by lower fuel usage. Still being used today in the US where diesels remain unpopular.

Just remember Philip, 80% of the population can’t afford (or won’t buy) a new car anyway. New EV sales are targeting those that are prepared to forego other features for an EV instead.

A $50K-$100K car is still a $50K-$100K car - new buyers decide on what features they want based on what represents value to them. Some even pay a premium just for a “badge”.

The MG is the first to significantly bring down the entry price on an EV and won’t be the last.

So well done to NavyDiver for being an early adopter and sharing your experience. And well done to goingbush for showing what can be done with an old vehicle as well.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

I remember the same arguments about cost of ownership being used a decade ago for diesel vs petrol. People on this forum would argue the higher up front cost of a diesel would take more than a decade to be offset by lower fuel usage. Still being used today in the US where diesels remain unpopular.

Just remember Philip, 80% of the population can’t afford (or won’t buy) a new car anyway. New EV sales are targeting those that are prepared to forego other features for an EV instead.

A $50K-$100K car is still a $50K-$100K car - new buyers decide on what features they want based on what represent value to them. Some even pay a premium just for a “badge”.

The MG is the first to significantly bring down the entry price on an EV and won’t be the last.

So well done to NavyDiver for being an early adopter and sharing your experience. And well done to goingbush for showing what can be done with an old vehicle as well.

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But the EV version is still twice the price of the equivalent petrol version - so it's not really bringing the price down, it's just that MG's are a cheap Chinese brand, so I would say that MG have a cheaper offering in EV's - but they do in the petrol market too so it isn't really an argument that this makes them affordable - someone who has $23K to spend on a car can have a shiny new MG if that's what they want - they may love to get the EV version but that's a bridge too far.

But they are not targeting someone who has $23K to buy the cheapest new car they can afford. They are targeting someone who has $50K to buy a SUV they don’t need.

And as the take up increase, the entry prices come down.

People used to pay a large premium just for a diesel, they would even pay a further premium for an automatic.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

So all you need is about 15 years' worth of services and fuel to cover the difference in initial cost between an ICE car and the EV.

Please do not quote how "cheap" it is to own an EV when you are given subsidies by stupid governments promoting coal fired vehicles which embody slavery of children in their components.

About 80% of the population cannot afford EV purchase prices.ie those earning under 100K who are being screwed by government policy again .
Regards PhilipA

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The many lower cost Evs about to flood the market might change the numbers very quickly except for those who tow or do 500+ km per day of course. Fuel cost for ev is 1/5th of my sons ULP cost and his car is not a guzzler. Noting of course it is very likely we well see dumping of cars not able to be sold else where here in Australia.

FBT free salary sacrifice is another bit

Slavery of children Phillip? You mean for cobalt perhaps? Agree that is a concern for some batteries and the DRC!


MIA CULPA- glasses on - The Bill was $260 for the 40,000 km service

PS not suggesting anyone should be made to buy a ICE or EV myself.

EDIT- 15 years????????? NO WAY I know a few years service costs on my D3s and the several thousand litres of diesel would easily pay for my EV in less than 3 years in full. It of course cannot tow the boat or drive to Perth in 3 days or less :)

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

The many lower cost Evs about to flood the market might change the numbers very quickly except for those who tow or do 500+ km per day of course. Fuel cost for ev is 1/5th of my sons ULP cost and his car is not a guzzler. Noting of course it is very likely we well see dumping of cars not able to be sold else where here in Australia.

FBT free salary sacrifice is another bit

Slavery of children Phillip? You mean for cobalt perhaps? Agree that is a concern for some batteries and the DRC!


MIA CULPA- glasses on - The Bill was $260 for the 40,000 km service

PS not suggesting anyone should be made to buy a ICE or EV myself.

EDIT- 15 years????????? NO WAY I know a few years service costs on my D3s and the several thousand litres of diesel would easily pay for my EV in less than 3 years in full. It of course cannot tow the boat or drive to Perth in 3 days or less :)

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What low cost options are coming and at what price point? I’ve heard this wheeled out dozens of times but never seen any proof anything ‘cheap’ is coming. Lithium batteries are increasing in price month on month at the moment so I can’t see how we’re going to get a $25K EV that matches in any way a small city petrol runabout - I’m not being negative and I’m all ears if there’s something out there to prove me wrong - I just think saying ‘cheaper EV’s are coming’ is like saying ‘more honest politicians are coming’

Power prices set to rise 30% this Winter as well and almost no charging infrastructure outside the City. I can’t charge an EV at home (parked on the road - no other option) or at work (work carpark with no access to power) so not sure how I could make one work - range isn’t an issue at all for me but too many other things are - Price, where to charge it and resale value being the main ones.

I’ve just ordered an ICE to replace current ICE - changeover value to go to new top spec dual cab is under $30K so hopefully in a few years they’ll be something other than this I can try but not holding my breath.

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EDIT- 15 years????????? NO WAY I know a few years service costs on my D3s and the several thousand litres of diesel would easily pay for my EV in less than 3 years in full. It of course cannot tow the boat or drive to Perth in 3 days or less

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I don't really want to make this an epic but you are comparing apples and oranges.
The cost of a comparable small caris nothing like that of an EV.
Let's take my own example.
2019 Honda Jazz with 12KK cost $ 13,000 in Sept 2019.
expected resale in 10 years maybe $5000.
fuel about $100 per month or $1200 per year= 12000
services twice yearly at $210 or $420 per year=4200.( and like many of us poor people I now do my own servicing so this is only $200 per year using synthetic oil)
Total cost for 10years $24000
Range 500Km on highway time to fill 5minutes.

MG EV cost $49000 services say 1000 in 10 years. Resalle value zero.
Total cost $50000 plus electricity say $30 per month.
I have ignored tyres ,though EVs are generally harder on tyres than a comparable car as they are heavier.
I have also ignore Km charge which will have to come in everywhere if passed by the high court. if not there will be some other tax.

My main objection is that EVs are a subsidy program for the rich. The poor as detailed above can only dream of an EV, while paying fuel excise, registration, etc. in place of EVs.
Regards PhilipA
PS a friend's son bought an Ionic 6 and sold it in two weeks due to his frustration at being in queus for recharging. "Recharge Rage" may become a new category of rage.

I think expecting any new MG to be worth more than scrap value (ICE or EV) after 10 years is wishful thinking IMO… [emoji56][emoji6]

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Originally Posted by Homestar

I think expecting any new MG to be worth more than scrap value (ICE or EV) after 10 years is wishful thinking IMO… [emoji56][emoji6]

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May be- noted the toyota pius unexpected million km taxis in Darwin several years ago and the ITP Renewables’ Battery Test Centre 6 year cycling simulation of more than 10 years use ( residential batteries) This report is not verified Toyota Prius Taxi Logs More Than 600,000 Miles; Batteries Last, Apparently (Video)

Not suggesting any of these are likely in Australia but some are scheduled https://evplugchargers.com/the-15-ch...-buy-in-europ/
The 100% EV FIAT 500 – from 20.492 EUROS is about 30k AUD
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Not that some of us would down size that far perhaps[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

Scrap value of a 10 year old car is always going to be interesting. The lithium cost per kg is about $35. cobalt price per kg $236 and manganese price per kg $49?

Quick google suggested. "A typical EV battery has about 8 kilograms of lithium, 14 kilograms of cobalt, and 20 kilograms of manganese, although this can often be much more depending on the battery size – a Tesla Model S' battery, for example, contains around 62.6 kg (138 pounds) of lithium."

Lithium Batteries are recyclable (CSIRO on that )

As stated buy what you want, what you can afford to run and service. I am still waiting for my Hydrogen towing 4wd long range easy to refuel beast of course. This is a "While I am Waiting" thread only

PSST I think my Lada is still running now- that shocks me- SOOO much rust

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May be- noted the toyota pius unexpected million km taxis in Darwin several years ago and the ITP Renewables’ Battery Test Centre 6 year cycling simulation of more than 10 years use ( residential batteries) This report is not verified Toyota Prius Taxi Logs More Than 600,000 Miles; Batteries Last, Apparently (Video)

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Prius does not have lithium batteries.
They have nickel metal hydride.
Regards PhilipA