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Probably that is a more realistic take on it rather than "the spiritual successor to the defender"Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoges
I really love this take on it. Maybe this should have been the Grenadier. Of course... given Magna Steyr who build the G-Wagen also had a big part of the design of the Grenadier I doubt they had much motivation. :D
I turned my Suzuki Jimny into a G-Wagen | CarExpert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
Neither is an L663 and it isn't any cheaper and no tray back version.
The new defender is a modern interpration of the old defender designed and optimised for on road use. Preferably within a few hours drive (tow truck) of a dealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by loanrangie
Nah…. They said that when the TD5 was introduced too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
There are several hard working current model defenders around this part of Aus, no dealers for hundreds of kilometres.
I speak to several of the owners regularly, they’re doing big trips in deserts, regular beach work, towing heavy, all the usual things.
Have they had a few niggles, sure.
One has owned from new a County, All the TDI models, a TD5, the Puma version and now the new one. Guess which one has caused the least grief! And it’s gotten well into the +100k odometer zone
The oldest one is barely five. I've no doubt when everything is new a remote trip would be worth a roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
I'm quite confident time will prove me right. I'm not alone on this.
A new Defender is literally a beefed up, now OTA updated Discovery 4 with some design cues to the old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
D4s are proving incredibly resilient (ok some 3.0l aren’t) but the body, suspension and basic electro/mechanical are holding together just fine.
I can remember when I purchased my Tomb Raider TD5 seeing multitudes of them in the workshop having niggles and problems rectified. Now nobody thinks twice about a few maintenance items and off they go.
My D4 as an example is about to roll 230k, its total maintenance bill would be sub $15k for its entire life.
I did a quick calculation using the Reserve Bank's inflation calculator to determine what my now departed 2008 Defender cost in today's dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot
It cost me $50000 new and I added stuff (as you do) like a bull bar lets say another $15000 so $65000. if I was to add rear locker add say another $5000. so a total cost to me of $70000 in 2008 dollars.
The Defender cost me close to $106.000 in today's money.
Makes the Grenadier and the L663 Defender look like better value considering what you get for your extra dollars.
The D3's and D4's I've seen in the wild haven't been at all good with remote travel. Engine failures, air suspension, even major suspension failures. Oh and a comical amount of electrical gremlins some of which cause fail to proceeds. Every time I do a trip with one it ends badly. Lets see.. last three trips. First one was a D3 which destroyed it's engine. Next one the same car decided that it wouldn't ask the alternator to charge although the alternator itself was fine. Next one was a D4 had a complete strut failure. And the year before I did the ride (2021) they had a D3 which went onto the bump stops and had to be recovered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
It's hard because no one knows as the cars are all very new, but I haven't seen any evidence myself that the "Defender" won't do the same. I'm not saying they aren't nice rural area/city cars and I'm sure people have a great experience with them.
I wish I was there in 2008, selling Bull bar and diff lock packages for todays equivalent of $30 000+.Quote:
Originally Posted by one_iota
For those prices I would've been able to retire by 2010.
I bought my defender new in 2005. It was 46k DA. I could have had a d2 on runout for 46 too. A Troopy was 64 if I remember correctly, and a patrol was 54 DA. You could spend up to 50 on a camry back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by discorevy
If we say the troopy or 76 wagon is actually the same car, and it's about 80 DA in a GXL (yes I know you can spend a fortune on them). My defender was significantly cheaper than one of those!
This is miy and ASPW's argument that the Grenadier which the prices had snuck up to 134 for a base trialmaster DA .. is not a successor to the real Defender. It's just way too expensive.
At grenadier launch the promised price was 80 plus onroads, which I thought nailed it. Less than 100 with a few options. If they'd kept to that price they would have sold up a storm. That would have given them real inertia in the market which would have had dealerships lining up to add them to their brands. Support everywhere.
The problem is that somewhere along the way it morphed from a ultility vehicle and spiritual Defender replacement to a "Premium niche brand"