Thread: Welfare. Can't Get A Job,..Yeah Right.

Originally Posted by MrLandy

The region I live in has a very high proportion of disabled people, almost 20%. Employers are not necessarily supportive.

Unemployment is not usually as it seems . In fact unemployment levels across Australia are much higher than the official figure, due to underemployment. A more compassionate less presumptive attitude is usually the best way to go in the world IME.

TWENTY percent?...As a well known Aussie said,...Please explain!
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

TWENTY percent?...As a well known Aussie said,...Please explain!
Pickles.

Twenty one hundredths

The best advice I could give any parent with youngsters is to get them into the work force asap. The more work experience they have when they finish school the easier it is to get a full time job.

Our son (now 23) was 12 when we got him a job filling up bags at a soil and garden centre. He is autistic so that dealt with a number of issues for us (that it felt better to earn your money rather than stealing it) and because it was a productivity job he learned to work hard. From there he went to Coles and took his work ethic with him. He also delivered the local paper.

From there he got an apprenticeship and has been a fully qualified tradesman for about 3 years.

Our daughter got into Coles at the age of 13. She is now on her 2nd full time job and is working her way around the finance sector in the absence of finding a uni course that she wants to do. And she's 21.

I see a lot of parents at work who don't let their kids have jobs because they want them to focus on study. But in reality life is harder for those kids. It's hard for them to compete for jobs with other kids who have had 4 to 5 years of work experienced before they have finished school. And being in the workforce teaches social and life skills that can't be taught at school or home.

Yep part-time work is a great thing for students. I see the ones with some work mature much faster than those without it. Plus they study hard too. Much more responsible.

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The problem is we are seeing less and less apprenticeships. No one wants to take on apprentices anymore. When I was 16 more than half of those I went to school with would get apprenticeships straight out of school. Bow its around 10% or less straight out of high school. Most of us started apprenticeships at 16, now you have to finish year 12. Then to even be considered you have to have at least a Cert 2 or Pre-apprenticeship and often a Cert 3 or even 4 before companies will take you on as an apprentice.
Parents and kids have to spend big $ at TAFE or similar and then still often cannot get an apprenticeship. See it frequently. What happened to the days where you got an apprenticeship and the employers and government paid for the training? This is a big part of our skill shortage, what kids can afford $6k up to get pre qualified? I am paying for our daughter and will do for my son, but certainly not a sustainable system and with TAFE costs escalating rapidly not sustainable. I have seen so many drop out that just cannot afford the fees. We need to head back to the old system where there is no cost to the apprentice aside from low wages for a few years.

Originally Posted by ATH

"Apprentices never start at the top and there starting pay is low," Very true and I know it as many others do.
When I started my apprenticeship in UK at the age of 16 on very low wages there were heaps of jobs going for labourers on many sites in the area and they all paid about 12 quid a week.
Now this was good money back then and the lads used to swagger into the pub and spend up large making me green with envy. But 5years later I was earning 45 quid a week and they were still on 12!
Boot was on the other foot and did I enjoy it.
Trouble seems to be now so many don't want the tough times on low wages when young, but want the car, booze, holidays in Bali etc. then expect to do an apprenticeship later in life with full wages! Are they kidding? Why should anyone employ them on those conditions?
AlanH.

I hate to say this Craig, and it's political so may have a short life.

You are going to have to vote in a different government for it to happen now.

Originally Posted by CraigE

The problem is we are seeing less and less apprenticeships. No one wants to take on apprentices anymore. When I was 16 more than half of those I went to school with would get apprenticeships straight out of school. Bow its around 10% or less straight out of high school. Most of us started apprenticeships at 16, now you have to finish year 12. Then to even be considered you have to have at least a Cert 2 or Pre-apprenticeship and often a Cert 3 or even 4 before companies will take you on as an apprentice.
Parents and kids have to spend big $ at TAFE or similar and then still often cannot get an apprenticeship. See it frequently. What happened to the days where you got an apprenticeship and the employers and government paid for the training? This is a big part of our skill shortage, what kids can afford $6k up to get pre qualified? I am paying for our daughter and will do for my son, but certainly not a sustainable system and with TAFE costs escalating rapidly not sustainable. I have seen so many drop out that just cannot afford the fees. We need to head back to the old system where there is no cost to the apprentice aside from low wages for a few years.

I agree with a lot of what you say Craig, Hell , we put our eldest daughter thru her 4 yr nursing course which was run thru the Uni , which included several months at a time working at the hospital for practical experience ( which I totally agree with ) , yet she wasn't paid 1c , If it wasn't for the fact she lived at home for free, and to her credit she got a part time job for some spending money, she would have been like many others who had to drop out due to the cost.


Let me post another side . I am involved in running 14 commercial fishing vessels , we outsource most of our work due to time constraints, which means we use companies like Cat to do all our engine work ( they are all Cat engines so makes sense ). In thier case they have apprentice's who come with a trademan - all good I have no problem with people learning - BUT - this comes to a head when its time to pay the bill - $100 / Hr for the tradesman PLUS $30/hr for the apprentice. Many will say why should the customer have to pay for someone who basically does not much, and is there to learn.


We have had to increase our Maintainence budget by 4% to cover these added costs that not only Cat , but every other business who has apprentices decides to pass on their costs to someone else. You think 4% don't sound like much , our budget is over $4 million for this year.


Now , if we want to live in the lucky country , with high wages , welfare , cheap medical , then the costs get passed on , so in our case the cost of our products - seafood - goes up , so what happens - the end consumer say's "Geez those Australian prawns are expensive " I will just buy those farmed imported one's that are $5/kg cheaper, we sell less , so we have to save costs, lets just sack some staff and run leaner to cover our drop in sales revenue .. Its a vicious circle .


Then of course in all of this we are assuming that the younger generation DO want an apprenticeship and be paid under minimum wage for a few years till the gain some experience. - This I am extremely doubtful of- I think the idea of a comfy air con office with a big salary seems to be expected from a lot these days. Actually come to think of it, im still looking for the same thing.


Cheers Ean

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I hate to say this Craig, and it's political so may have a short life.

You are going to have to vote in a different government for it to happen now.

TAFE funding has been slashed and instead given to private providers, but some of them are very dodgy.
For example, my workplace used to send students to a private auto mechanics trainer, but was unhappy with the results and is now starting our own mechanics certificate II, with students from a group of schools to learn how to maintain a fleet of buses and other vehicles. So far 18 students have signed up for the course.
In the past those students would have gone to TAFE, but now schools are having to do it.
Incidentally in the past several students have gained apprenticeships after doing work experience with vehicle and motorcycle dealers, so it can be done, but schools are having to pick up the ball dropped by the federal government.
And don't get me started on Gonski ... that would be political.

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