Thread: Covid Mk ll

Originally Posted by 350RRC

And especially after they've needed it twice for the same problem.

DL

If they don't obtain common sense after the same problem twice, then they truly are a ****ing idiot and should be put into an induced comma so they cannot infect the gene pool.

Originally Posted by 350RRC

Just for info.......... the US currently has just under 10 million active cases, will hit 750,000 total covid deaths this week, up from 650,000 on Aug 2.

United States COVID: 45,738,585 Cases and 743,880 Deaths - Worldometer

DL

Just saw Russia is sadly catching up. The very low vaccination rate is crook+

. Russia has reported more than 1,000 daily COVID-related deaths for the first time since the start of the pandemic, with the country’s vaccination drive at a standstill and no restrictions in place.
An official government tally on Saturday reported 1,002 deaths and 33,208 new infections, setting a pandemic high for both fatalities and cases for the third day in a row.

Earlier this week, Health Minister Mikhail Murashko pointed to their “behaviour”, while Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said everything had been done to give the public the chance to “save their lives by getting vaccinated”.
While several local vaccines have been available for months, authorities have struggled to inoculate a vaccine-sceptic population.
Independent polls show that more than half of Russians do not plan to get a shot. Link
A shot of Vodka will not help

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Clearly and obviously wrong.

Vaccinations have limited infections in epidemic diseases for over two hundred years, and all the evidence, both from the laboratory tests and epidemiological data shows that this is the case with the current pandemic, despite, for example, the widespread publication of fabricated versions of expert evidence in the court case in Sydney that saw ten cases against mandatory vaccination thrown out yesterday.

Yeah .... nah.

When the Covid vaccinations were developed the only thing that was guaranteed - or tested for - was preventing illness, that is limiting hospitalisation. They weren't claimed to prevent infection (i.e., to be prophylactic) or to prevent transmission, let alone to provide "sterilizing immunity". So, anyone who believes that because they're fully vaccinated against Covid that they can't get infected again and that they can't infect others is completely wrong.

That said, there is evidence from the UK that both Pfizer and AZ do have an effect on onward transmission of breakthrough infections (i.e., when vaccinated people get infected with Covid) but it's nothing like their effectiveness against illness. So - if you are vaccinated you can still get infected and you can still infect others.

Page 29 ff:

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defa...ia-in-2021.pdf

Furthermore, there are numerous countries with high levels of vaccination - like Israel - that suffered large increases in infections when they removed restrictions. That's why the planning for re-opening in Victoria predicts a surge in infections when we reopen, and that's been explicit and known from the start, and has been constantly discussed here. The difference - and this was discussed in The Age today - is that the hospitalisation rate is about half what it was last year before the vaccinations.

So, as I said - a lower rate of hospitalisation x a larger number of infections = hospitals overflowing.

Going back to my earlier comments about herd immunity:

Individuals cannot rely on COVID-19 herd immunity: Durable immunity to viral disease is limited to viruses with obligate viremic spread

It is often messaged that herd immunity to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV2 (CoV-2)), the causative agent of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), will protect nonvaccinated individuals from infection. Herd immunity refers to the concept that when a sufficient fraction of individuals in a population develop immunity from infection or vaccination, viral transmission is reduced to a near negligible level. However, seasonal CoVs, which cause approximately 20% of common colds, remain endemic, even though demonstrating only limited antigenic evolution in epitopes targeted by neutralizing antibodies [1,2]. Although there are only 4 circulating seasonal CoVs, infections frequently recur, even yearly, likely related to waning antibody levels [3]. Human challenge studies established that seasonal CoV reinfection with the identical strain can occur within a year after initial exposure, though typically with reduced shedding and milder symptoms [4]. Reinfection also appears to occur following mild COVID-19 cases, where the serum neutralizing antibody half-life is only approximately 5 weeks [5].

If immunity to SARS-CoV-2 and seasonal CoVs are similar, COVID-19 herd immunity is a pipe dream, even more so given the relatively rapid selection of mutants with amino acid substitutions in the spike protein that reduce the efficiency of serum antibody neutralization [6]. Absent effective herd immunity, over the next few years, individuals can choose whether their first exposure to SARS-CoV-2 immunogens occurs via vaccination or infection.

COVID-19 Vaccines: The Myth of '''Sterilizing Immunity''' - The Atlantic

To modern immunologists, the phenomenon is known as sterilizing immunity, the ability to “totally prevent infection,” Taia Wang, an immunologist at Stanford University, told me. The measles vaccine is still often held up as its paragon.
No infection means no disease, no death, and no transmission, the absolute immunological trifecta. It’s why sterilizing immunity has often been framed as a “holy grail,” what researchers aim for when they’re designing their shots, says David Martinez, a vaccinologist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. But sterilizing immunity also has been a source of trouble. Some people hoped the COVID-19 vaccines could achieve sterilizing immunity, especially after reports in the winter and spring trumpeted the jabs’ surprising power at preventing infections—enough that the CDC told vaccinated people they could shed their masks in May. Then sterilizing immunity came back to bite us, when breakthrough infections began to pop up among the immunized, prompting fear and confusion among those who’d been certain that the vaccines alone could quash the coronavirus’s spread.

COVID-19 vaccines were never going to give us sterilizing immunity; it’s possible they never will. But the reason isn’t just their design, or the wily nature of the virus, or heavy and frequent exposures, though those factors all play a role. It’s that sterilizing immunity itself might be a biological myth.

BTW, this is why believing that we can safely throw open the gates to fully vaccinated individuals from overseas is wrong - they can be infected and they can pass it on once they get here.

Let's hope that none of the new variants of concern enter Australia in this way.

Really interesting article - in the US deaths from influenza (NB which is NOT the common cold) dropped from between 20,000 and 30,000 a year to about 700. Kids deaths went from between 30 and 200 a year to just one.

So, if you can save 30,000 lives can you keep doing it?

How Bad Will Flu Season Be This Winter? We Have a Choice - The Atlantic

Better numbers:

Flu Has Disappeared for More Than a Year - Scientific American

• U.S. COVID-19 and pneumonia deaths | Statista

So all those posts above ignore the effects that vaccination is clearly having in NSW Infections have dropped from 2000 a day to ~300 today. What’s doing that - fairy dust?

Regards
Tote

Originally Posted by Tote

It won't be long before retail is squeaking that they are losing money across the border and the mayor decides that restrictions will lift further..... Goulburn has a Bunnings if you are up for a drive but Magnet Mart in Qbn used to be OK. Yass main street was chaotic this morning at about 11:30 when we needed to go down there to get a couple of things.

Regards,
Tote

The Canberra Times is reporting this morning that retailers in the ACT are miffed that people in Canberra are driving over the border when they are restricted to shopping by click and collect
Regards
Tote