EV general discussion

I personally do wonder (genuinely) what the "proper" energy density for a battery should be. I do know that lithium certainly is not it compared to any liquid. In fact, I wonder what the best solution to EV would be anyway. Hydrogen is pretty much hated by now I think and experiments regarding those vehicles seem to be drying up.

The "EV" can be powered by anything, even petrol or diesel :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHhf223jGIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seHWJMKwOQQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qu-BDixGYY

I think most people gripe with the "EV" at this point is, apart from it being pushed in all sorts of disenguine ways, is the battery part or BEV in short. I kind of doubt that battery technology will be coming down the hill as fast as most people would like it to? Perhaps due to the significant importance they will speed things up (and cut corners here and there?) but normally from lab to production takes quite a while...

The new batteries are an increase in density but they still do not come close to any liquid form of energy.

-P

Defender 110 (MY 22) catches fire. On Defender2. No details on model. DEFENDER2.NET - Log In

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spudfan

Defender 110 (MY 22) catches fire. On Defender2. No details on model. DEFENDER2.NET - Log In

---

Was it an EV defender? because that is no lithium battery fire. if it was there would be nothing left ... the carport would be gone ... the house would be gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I'm just really keen to know how the batteries last in real world use as the car ages. We will know in about 5 years time :)

---

I think you’re about spot on with your time line. We’re starting to see some data from our first Lithium battery packs we use - they range from 10KWH to 125KWH and all are LiFePo4 tech. Oldest of which is just on 3 years old now.

We’ve had some now do over 1200 charge cycles and we’ve seen exactly zero degradation in them which of course we’re pretty happy with. Current performance and future long term are very different but our earlier AGM deep cycle systems we had between 10KWH and 30KWH show marked degradation after 1000 cycles. The most we got from one of these was around 1600 cycles and 3 years and the batteries were toast by then. We’ve replaced all of these with LiFePo4 since. We know they’ll crap all over AGM tech but when they start to degrade and how quickly they fall off the cliff when that happens is still yet to be seen. I think you’re right about the 5 year mark - we’ll have a pretty good handle on them by then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homestar

I think you’re about spot on with your time line. We’re starting to see some data from our first Lithium battery packs we use - they range from 10KWH to 125KWH and all are LiFePo4 tech. Oldest of which is just on 3 years old now.

We’ve had some now do over 1200 charge cycles and we’ve seen exactly zero degradation in them which of course we’re pretty happy with. Current performance and future long term are very different but our earlier AGM deep cycle systems we had between 10KWH and 30KWH show marked degradation after 1000 cycles. The most we got from one of these was around 1600 cycles and 3 years and the batteries were toast by then. We’ve replaced all of these with LiFePo4 since. We know they’ll crap all over AGM tech but when they start to degrade and how quickly they fall off the cliff when that happens is still yet to be seen. I think you’re right about the 5 year mark - we’ll have a pretty good handle on them by then.

---

Hi Gav,

Do you charge to 100% discharge to 100% or 90/10, 80/20 or is dependent on the job?

Tony

1200 cycles translates to an equivalent of 300,000 to 400,000kms for an average EV. Potentially over 500,000km for one with extended range.

And if the batteries prove they do last the 1500-2000 cycles that should be expected, then the typical EV battery will probably last longer than the rest of the car.

The other positive is on current price projections, a typical replacement battery could be under $10K by 2030, cheaper than an engine replacement.

Sure some batteries will fail earlier, but then again so do many ICE’s. I certainly would have more faith in an EV battery outlasting the rest of the car, than the TDV6 will in my D3. 🤪

They better be lasting a whole heap longer. See, your TDV6 I can toss into a schredder, the plastic will float up in water, the aluminium will sink and the metal will stick to a magnet. Throw it all in their respective furnace et presto, recycled ali, steel and even plastic (up to a limited number of times).

Not so with the Battery from your EV. And no, not in the future for so far as I can tell with the current state of development.

-P

EV battery recycling is already happening. By the time volumes pick up to significant levels, there will be multiple options available.

Plus by 2030, I would expect repurposing old EV batteries with 80% capacity remaining into house solar storage batteries will be an option as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Was it an EV defender? because that is no lithium battery fire. if it was there would be nothing left ... the carport would be gone ... the house would be gone.

---

This is the latest update from the owner.
"I've done little bit more research and actually I've found some similar stories about HVAC that was turning on. That's what exactly happened. HVAC turned on (although the car was off for several hours) and started to work like crazy. That overloaded the fuses and I think it was the reason why the fire started. The question remains -> why HVAC launched itself."
What is "HVAC"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spudfan

This is the latest update from the owner.
"I've done little bit more research and actually I've found some similar stories about HVAC that was turning on. That's what exactly happened. HVAC turned on (although the car was off for several hours) and started to work like crazy. That overloaded the fuses and I think it was the reason why the fire started. The question remains -> why HVAC launched itself."
What is "HVAC"?

---

Heating/Ventilation/Air Conditioning.