EV general discussion [Archive] - Page 16 - Australian Land Rover Owners

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TonyC

16th September 2024, 08:07 AM

A good 124, especially the AC or BC series, can bring serious money. Selling one would be no problem at all. Finding one, oth…… I have had someone from Belgium pestering me for my tail lights.

I agree that the BYD buyer isn’t interested in a car with “character “. However I am. That’s why I watched TG/TGT. They understood this.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

I mean, a car brand in 2024, selling new cars, like a 124 Sport, or an Alfa GTV 105, or a Land Rover Defender!

I'm sure a good 124 Sport would bring fantastic money.

Tony

Tins

16th September 2024, 08:34 AM

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

I mean, a car brand in 2024, selling new cars, like a 124 Sport, or an Alfa GTV 105, or a Land Rover Defender!

I'm sure a good 124 Sport would bring fantastic money.

Tony

I'd mortgage my grandsons. I never managed to own a new one. Course, the safety police wouldn't let me these days. Perhaps in Africa...

NavyDiver

16th September 2024, 10:36 AM

Mia Culpa. Zero% State Of Charge just 8km from CCS charger last night. Over 50000km in MG XS EV and current MG4 hit 30,000 yesterday.

First time zero for me. Now the nice bit. MG breakdown assistance arranged towing for me. I had enough SOC indicated for the trip and four charging options mid-way if top up was needed. All four top up options were broken or to slow for the schedule I had to make last night. One 100 kwh option gave me 25kWh as three others took the rest :)

Had I started with 100% it would not have been an issue! Smug mug me was busted!

In other news the Kia EV9 has a tow bar and brake controller installed by KIA as a option. Just started 5 days ago! I hate the idea of Luxury car tax so unlikely to do that.[biggrin]

prelude

16th September 2024, 06:08 PM

@navydiver, that's a rotten bit of luck. Still, I could not image that if they were fuel stations 4 would be broken in a row somehow... Weird.

I must say, yes, people that go for BYD are either communists that love supporting the CCP [bigrolf] or those who would otherwise buy a dacia duster or whatever. On the other hand, do not rule out the multitude of people that used to drive a hybrid because they were state sponsored and now go for EV for the same reason.

Most cars don't produce a nice sound anymore, no. You have to go aftermarket for that. And even then, I have to admit that most modern cars I don't warm up to either. A big volkswagen, merc or bmw is no longer "big" it's just fat and almost as bad as a tesla; a playstation on wheels. And what about those numbers on the back?! a BMW 540 meant: a 4 litre engine. Nowadays you get a 1.1 eco 4 potter or worse a full EV and they put a badge on the back "it would be probably this kind of engine". Another thing that EV's ruined as well [bighmmm]

In other news, my dad owned said fiat :) It unfortunately came to a sad end when he bounced off of 3 guard rails like a snooker ball :( He stepped out unharmed though.

Cheers,
-P

Tins

17th September 2024, 08:11 AM

Hmm... Arson or not, if these were ICE cars once the fire was out it would be out.

https://youtu.be/3qA3nEyyzj4'si=Riay5eXq4TRE7q22

Oh yeah.. Welcome back, Gav.

Saitch

17th September 2024, 05:41 PM

In other news the Kia EV9 has a tow bar and brake controller installed by KIA as a option. Just started 5 days ago! I hate the idea of Luxury car tax so unlikely to do that.[biggrin]

Does it have a spare tyre? If, for example, you went via Walhalla to have a coldie at the Kevy and had a flat at Gaffneys Creek, what would happen?

Tins

17th September 2024, 06:46 PM

Does it have a spare tyre? If, for example, you went via Walhalla to have a coldie at the Kevy and had a flat at Gaffneys Creek, what would happen?

Nothing. it wouldn't make it that far. There's a hill or two in the way, and hills kill batteries. This time of year, the cold would be an issue as well. snowed here a couple of days ago.

ramblingboy42

17th September 2024, 07:13 PM

I do recall back in 1980....which is almost 45yrs ago.....while doing a framies course with the RAAF , the importance placed on thermal runaways in the then current crop of military aeroplanes. The instructors and examiners were quite serious about understanding the issue of thermal runaway in the aeroplane batteries then.
In my following 5yrs with Army Aviation I saw no evidence of it occurring.
Perhaps there may be some older Raaf framies or queer traders saw it.
Perhaps they're alldead from doing reseal/deseal which I only had the pleasure of doing in Pilatus Porters.

NavyDiver

18th September 2024, 06:53 AM

Does it have a spare tyre? If, for example, you went via Walhalla to have a coldie at the Kevy and had a flat at Gaffneys Creek, what would happen?
Range "without a boat would be fine". The WA couple with a caravan and EV9 did need the spare tire they added[bigrolf] Took the MG4 to Walhalla a few months ago. I wasn't tempted to retrace that nice drive to Mansfield that time. I didn't have my chainsaw in the car[bigrolf] Fully agree with the spare tire concern. Would be a show stopper[thumbsupbig]

Tins

18th September 2024, 08:09 AM

When will enough be enough?

https://youtu.be/wDKS6_DBuaE'si=FbKyJNNZ54j-uISD

Tins

30th September 2024, 05:00 PM

https://youtu.be/Ysn1zqrUX4Q'si=zy1dPMiNLxGwIQ_h

Tins

8th October 2024, 06:53 AM

https://youtu.be/_QxbYdzyx4g'si=uh3iyU7HbuD1g2Oq

101RRS

8th October 2024, 04:13 PM

Whats the point of posting video links without any comment/discussion on the content - I thought it was a no no - certainly a past member from Bribie Is was criticised for constantly doing it.

Tins

8th October 2024, 05:20 PM

Would have thought the thumbnail was informative enough.

Tins

9th October 2024, 06:48 AM

For those of you who need your hand held, this is a video of a EV fire ( well a golf cart which is a sort of EV ) that had fatal results.

https://youtu.be/1VN0RSeSwbE'si=wxlEbFUH1r1vZvMy

V8Ian

9th October 2024, 10:08 AM

Whats the point of posting video links without any comment/discussion on the content - I thought it was a no no - certainly a past member from Bribie Is was criticised for constantly doing it.
Incisor? :o

NavyDiver

9th October 2024, 10:42 AM

Incisor? :o

Sharp teeth? [biggrin]

Back to EVs Charging at home with solar is CHEAP. Not being at home can cost between 30 to 70cents per kw and the time cost can vary a lot. [bigwhistle]

My time grumble is #### network at Ballarat. I have unfortunately been visiting very frequently due to my dad dying after falling over. He usually bounced- this time he broke two ankles and then ........ falls are BAD. Doctors and hospitals try. 86 years and 11 month innings.

Back to the #### network. RACV had amazing charges in Ballarat which were vandalized by I assume people who do not like EV's. sadly not repaired and I was happy another faster charging network turned up (####). The other local slow options which are not really options unless you have a spare day. The other network does not work with anything other than elect J cars in Ballarat. It does at some other places.

90% of charging is simple plug and use my phone to start paying and charging. #### at other places works 99% just not in Ballarat. I have had to plug, start, unplug and repeat several times every time there. I did see on QLD place that did the same to me. Keep repeating till it works or call the support number to get them started. This is a known issue which could/should be fixed. A few days ago #### offer a plug and play option. Jumped on it immediately hoping that would fix it.

Plugged into #### last night. It said that the plug and charge option is not working at that site. Tried starting three times before muttering a bit and driving home with spare range left anyway.

Not everything about ev's is Rosey- A spy network allegation about two three brands is a bit of a concern as well perhaps.[bigwhistle]

DoubleChevron

10th October 2024, 03:00 PM

Sharp teeth? [biggrin]

Back to EVs Charging at home with solar is CHEAP. Not being at home can cost between 30 to 70cents per kw and the time cost can vary a lot. [bigwhistle]

My time grumble is #### network at Ballarat. I have unfortunately been visiting very frequently due to my dad dying after falling over. He usually bounced- this time he broke two ankles and then ........ falls are BAD. Doctors and hospitals try. 86 years and 11 month innings.

Back to the #### network. RACV had amazing charges in Ballarat which were vandalized by I assume people who do not like EV's. sadly not repaired and I was happy another faster charging network turned up (####). The other local slow options which are not really options unless you have a spare day. The other network does not work with anything other than elect J cars in Ballarat. It does at some other places.

90% of charging is simple plug and use my phone to start paying and charging. #### at other places works 99% just not in Ballarat. I have had to plug, start, unplug and repeat several times every time there. I did see on QLD place that did the same to me. Keep repeating till it works or call the support number to get them started. This is a known issue which could/should be fixed. A few days ago #### offer a plug and play option. Jumped on it immediately hoping that would fix it.

Plugged into #### last night. It said that the plug and charge option is not working at that site. Tried starting three times before muttering a bit and driving home with spare range left anyway.

Not everything about ev's is Rosey- A spy network allegation about two three brands is a bit of a concern as well perhaps.[bigwhistle]

Wouldn't everyone be aware of these issues before buying an electric car? I consider them a 2nd car/around town run-about that is recharged each night from the grid. For the vast majority, recharging "from your solar" is utter stupidity. Its just not going to happen .... not unless you never drive the car (ie: flatten the battery) and you never leave home during daylight hours.

I wouldn't leave town in an electric car if I owned one, I'd get a proper car out of the shed and use that :)

seeya
Shane L.

prelude

11th October 2024, 05:47 PM

A certain auto journo who's videos have been banned from the forum had a nice video on it. Since I can not link it, here is where to find the relevant information:

search for : EV vs INTERNAL COMBUSTION - 10yr CO2 shootout! I ran the numbers... and skip to timecode 14:26 for the calculation. No need to play the video and hear any foul language if you so wish, just the screen shot from that time code will show you a nice flipover with all the calculations on it.

Most positive way to look at it is that a model Y will be break even in terms of "pollution" (CO2 only of course) after say 12 years? Of course, there will always be people running night shifts that could charge on solar during the day :) But they are far and in between.

Cheers,
-P

Tins

11th October 2024, 07:32 PM

Most positive way to look at it is that a model Y will be break even in terms of "pollution" (CO2 only of course) after say 12 years?

Cheers,
-P

And I'm positive that CO2 isn't a pollutant.

Tins

22nd October 2024, 08:04 AM

For those who are uncertain, the following is a video:

https://youtu.be/D2Vjn0Z-DGs'si=5p-PbJLu2BIdeR8W

NavyDiver

22nd October 2024, 08:29 AM

For those who are uncertain, the following is a video:

https://youtu.be/D2Vjn0Z-DGs'si=5p-PbJLu2BIdeR8W

I looks like a picture JT [thumbsupbig] Chatting about Demolitions training this morning at an airport pick up. For a really really big bang and many peoples NIGHTMARE H.E. may be the way to go

The following is a fact or may appear to be (or not) just googled the question "do petrol or evs catch fire more"

Response was

“Petrol and diesel cars are at least 20 times more likely to catch fire than EVs. In Australia, we’ve had a very small number of battery fires from road-registered electric cars since 2010 and in the majority of cases, there has been a significant external factor, such as arson or a high speed crash.
[B]EV fire myths busted: Do they actually present a greater fire risk? - … (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=86875f611164a7bdJmltdHM9MTcyOTQ2ODgwMCZpZ3VpZD0x Njk2NjE2MC0xNzc4LTZiZGYtMDgwMi03NTgwMTY3NzZhMjImaW 5zaWQ9NTQ2OQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=16966160-1778-6bdf-0802-758016776a22&psq=do+petrol+or+evs+catch+fire+more&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZHJpdmUuY29tLmF1L25ld3MvZG8tZW xlY3RyaWMtY2Fycy1hY3R1YWxseS1wcmVzZW50LWEtZ3JlYXRl ci1maXJlLXJpc2stdGhhbi1wZXRyb2wtb3ItZGllc2VsLWV2LW ZpcmUtbXl0aHMtYnVzdGVkLyM6fjp0ZXh0PSVFMiU4MCU5Q1Bl dHJvbCUyMGFuZCUyMGRpZXNlbCUyMGNhcnMlMjBhcmUlMjBhdC UyMGxlYXN0JTIwMjAsc3VjaCUyMGFzJTIwYXJzb24lMjBvciUy MGElMjBoaWdoJTIwc3BlZWQlMjBjcmFzaC4&ntb=1)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABgAAAAYCAYAAAD gdz34AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACxjwv8YQUAAAAJc EhZcwAADsIAAA7CARUoSoAAAAKdSURBVEhLtVbPaxpBFNaoBLw K5qQoeAyYm0Y95OYfEPxxEPyRiOBFDzlKoN7yL8S2tE3x4lG8C clfkDbQkwZEowcPHgIxBt150/eG2a21a9ya9sHHfLP73ryZb97OrAntHeIT4oPEx3/A3yO IE4Qph8IjgCv1wuFQoGn02nIZDKQzWY5tYRcLscTiQSEw2Fwu9 18Z2cHKEaNXeFM8q8I063sKPF4XOFoz8/PysvLi4ItIy4h Hg8Vq6vr1m1WlX29/cVjKPBqF3mCwSNScqYvskOSyaTjBIwNEAjTi3ZKie7u7tj Xwednd3aWCCOntKoiX4LjtAElDgYrGA XwODw8PvNPpwP39PXS7XY59oNzkoyZ6fHzk5 fnlERPos IXyvABGIFGMtQCob7AQcHBywUCrFgMAhHR0esWCyydrsNiqIIX 7LZbMbK5fLaFeglgH6/zw4PD0UAbuhyMNvb24NKpcJw9lqS0WjEIpGI8DGbzfoS4R5o g4GA6oY8VxWjOAS3GKxwNnZGUynU02uWq0mnuP7jRIBJiBphPP qClRut9vZ1dWVNqlerwd v5/eb5ZoUwL5jEWjUZhMJlrVpVKpPxLoSjQcDl VCHUW3OVy8ZubGy3u4uJCnQj5/y5RLBYTK8CPjGFZrt3kZY4yQaPR0Da7Xq8zLFl9iWggqmf6cGw 2G1WD7qDL3EgCTSIJQ3wriSRUh1f532zyVgmoNVqmW0mk96FdX l5yq9VK7ykJ W8nkd5RgQchCwQCwmf1qFibgGbp8/kMHXalUmk51phEHo Ht1otOvgAj 23H9cSqgPNlu4FMVMaUDXqkxm9cLQrU0I4OJ1OpdlsivJ7enp6 05WpXfoSgjscDjg Puanp6dvvvT/42 L6eQnfdPaszQS BQAAAAASUVORK5CYII=
www.drive.com.au/news/do-electric-cars-actually-present-a-greater-fire-risk-tha… (http://www.drive.com.au/news/do-electric-cars-actually-present-a-greater-fire-risk-tha…)

Do we all have a fire extinguisher in our Landrovers?

Saitch

22nd October 2024, 11:35 AM

I don't consider the EV issue being the 'Cause of the Fire', but more the 'Extinguishing and By-products Control of the Fire'.

Let's face it, any vehicle with electrics, regardless of propulsion methods, has a chance of self immolation. I mean, how many of the reported, ICE related fires were caused by the ICE itself?

JDNSW

22nd October 2024, 12:52 PM

A significant number result from petrol leaks onto hot exhausts, but they start from a wide variety of triggers, and involve a wide variety of parts.

To give a couple of examples of somewhat unusual ones;-

Some time in the 1950s, probably in 1952 or 1953, my father had a fire start in his 1931 Swift, while making hard going up Bulli Pass, started by oil sweating out of the plywood of the tool box at the rear of the engine compartment, and dripping onto the exhaust. He extinguished it by slapping with a rag dipped in the radiator.

In 1989, commuting into Melbourne along the Maroondah Hwy early one morning, I stopped at lights, and immediately became aware of smoke coming from the engine. Pulling to the roadside I opened the bonnet and found the under bonnet insulation of the almost new Ford Laser company car was smouldering. I was able to pull out the burning section and discard it in the gutter. There was no signs of any reason for the ignition, and after investigation by the fleet manager and Ford, the only sensible explanation seems to be that a burning cigarette thrown out a window had been picked up and sucked against the insulation by the airflow, but dropped as this slowed as I stopped at the lights. I was very surprised, as I thought that stuff was supposed not to burn.

PhilipA

22nd October 2024, 01:28 PM

I often see statistics that put forward that ICE cars are more prone to ignition than EVs but have never got an answer about the assumptions.
1 The ICE carpark is on average 12 years old according to a source that I have forgotten. How old is the EV carpark. I would guess about 3 years.
2 The relative sizes of the carpark. AFAIR the ICE carpark is about 12 million. The EV carpark is what 50000? and all very young.
3 What is the age profile of ICE cars that catch fire? I don't think there are stats anywhere on this but common sense suggests that old under maintained ICE would be more likely to catch fire. I certainly believe this is so for trucks from personal experience of seeing old garbage carrying trucks catch fire on the Hawkesbury climb.
So IMHO the stats purporting that ICE cars catch fire more often are BS. I reckon nobody actually knows the situation like for like age, adjustments for car park size etc.
Regards PhilipA

Tombie

22nd October 2024, 02:42 PM

Until the data is normalised you cannot compare accurately.

Either way, a battery fire is far more volatile when it comes to controlling it. Plenty of methods to control fuel fires. Not so easy on Lithium burns.

Regardless, the EV machine keeps marching on.

And @navy diver….
I no longer carry an extinguisher in my LR - I’ll literally just walk away and let it go. Insurance can sort the rest.

vnx205

22nd October 2024, 05:36 PM

A significant number result from petrol leaks onto hot exhausts, but they start from a wide variety of triggers, and involve a wide variety of parts.

I almost had a serious fire in rather unusual circumstances.

One morning in the 1980s, I tried to start my 1969 Crown, but the battery was flat.

When I lifted the bonnet, i found that my windscreen washer bottle had burnt to the waterline.

The fire had been started by a large bundle of wires that ran down the inside part of the mudguard in the engine bay.

Constant slight movement had rubbed through the outer layer of tape and then through the insulation on a couple of wires which shorted out some time after I had parked the car.

I had to replace a section of the wires in that bundle and obviously the washer bottle.

I am convinced that if the bottle hadn't been at least half full, the amount of burning plastic bottle might have been enough to cause a lot more damage.

cripesamighty

22nd October 2024, 07:35 PM

What is almost never mentioned is according to insurance statistics, a goodly proportion of ICE fires are actually arson or suspected arson. Let's wait a few years and see if the EV's catch up with that metric!

3toes

22nd October 2024, 10:38 PM

Not quite an EV but along the lines of the conversation here.l

In the UK insurance companies are ‘advising’ policy holders that they are not to store rechargeable vehicles inside the house or garden sheds due to the number of fires and deaths resulting from fires while charging

Now I doubt these vehicles which I suppose are bicycles are covered by the same regulations as cars so probably not like for like

A while ago there was a spate of a particular brand of mobile phone bursting into flames while charging. When the baying mob had died down and what had happened was investigated was found they were all using non branded chargers that looked good but were not to spec

NavyDiver

23rd October 2024, 12:57 PM

Test driving a car that can tow my boat today! They promised a tow bar option ready at the time of delivery!! Its not my cool D3 capacity. A meeker 1500kg is enough perhaps.

Taking a STOP THAT STUPID person with me to hold my please let me go fishing again desire in check possibly.

this one started me today SUVs & Electric Vehicles | Leapmotor Official Site (https://www.leapmotor.com/au_en)

It doesn't have a tow bar!!! While looking I moved to this one which I am driving in a few hours!

XPENG G6 | XPENG Australia (https://xpeng.com.au/g6#)

Jeep owner is part of the group apparently[biggrin]

I was telling myself to stop wasting money until my Solid state company deliveries start next year maybe, just possibly ...... Looking at mates with bloody big snapper is killing me[thumbsupbig]

Do I ask INC to change my name to "very very stupid"[bigrolf] Psst anyone want a mg4[bigrolf][bigrolf]

Tombie

23rd October 2024, 03:06 PM

NavyDiver

23rd October 2024, 06:00 PM

Wouldn’t a BYD Shark be more suited overall for you Bubble Head :)

I like sharks as mentioned in a shhhh fourm[biggrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqZsoesa55w

NavyDiver

24th October 2024, 05:50 AM

When I say WHAT not WHO I wasn't joking :)

The car I was in yesterday was able to park itself and other party tricks. My Nuclear bent is going a bit nutty on growth via AI. The share price of a chip company has sky rocketted due to AI.

Back to the car. It had a NVIDIA OrionX processor NVIDIA DRIVE In-Vehicle Computing for Autonomous Vehicles | NVIDIA (https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/self-driving-cars/in-vehicle-computing/)

The car was in tech terms not significantly different to many others about now. It has integrated AI via that processor and integration with 5 HD Millimeter wave radars, 12 ultrasonic sensors and 12 cameras.

Aside from the party tricks I did think 'what if?' What if the remote control function overrode my control[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

I am not paranoid. Security is an ever evolving field all by itself with AI driven changes almost old school compared to Q day event which may or may not occur any time soon???

I like driving. The car I was in could almost self drive. Noting the world would be safer if a few [B]Very Very Good Drivers noticed yesterday never ever drove themselves again [biggrin][biggrin]

NavyDiver

26th October 2024, 09:47 AM

https://youtu.be/3y8HSOf6slw'si=Tflnqtpd__Q4vHtG

I tried the 'Hand free' driving shown in the video at about minute 11 in the video.

Data from a sales person said the range hit for:
"Based off tests and specifically Nike rack data, the range is reduced by approx 10%.

Boat towing is more around 15%."

I was expecting about 50%.

The WA crew driving around OZ with a caravan in a Kia EV9 report "

Range per charge (towing, typical): 260-300 km varying depending on speed, road surface, wind, changes in elevation etc

" 2024 Kia EV9 owner review | Electric Car Reviews | The NRMA (https://www.mynrma.com.au/electric-vehicles/reviews/2024-kia-ev9-owner-review)

Thats still a LOT lower than my prior DISCOs!

They reported "Average overall trip energy consumption:32.2 kWh/100km" That is rather high I thought! It put me off considering a EV9 honestly.

DO NOT LOOK AT THIS IF YOU LOVE YOUR DEEFER, DISCO, RANGIE[biggrin]

Over 8,140 km

Amount spent at chargers: $466 (plus cost of powered campsites we used along the way)
Charging at: Variety of fast ($0.60/kWh) and slow ($0.35/kWh) chargers. Some charging stations were free

My last big D3 trip to WA and Back cost is still a secret!!!!![bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

prelude

26th October 2024, 06:14 PM

You should get a job as an EVangelist mate :) You're clearly in love with those chest freezers, you could probably sell some somewhere! Doubtful on this forum though [bigrolf]

-P

NavyDiver

4th November 2024, 05:30 AM

You should get a job as an EVangelist mate :) You're clearly in love with those chest freezers, you could probably sell some somewhere! Doubtful on this forum though [bigrolf]

-P

"Industry analysts are watching closely. Rene Tønder, a market analyst, questioned on LinkedIn whether Jaguar might face the same fate as Rover, another storied British brand that dissolved in 2008 under BMW's ownership before Tata Motors laid it to rest in 2013." Jag has shut down all ICE production!!! Jaguar Shuts Down Production Lines and Relies on Existing Stock (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/jaguar-shuts-down-production-lines-and-relies-on-existing-stock/ar-AA1tqbxI?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EDBBAN&cvid=b2042fef5d764e18a08eb2993236a004&ei=23)

our Landrovers get a mention in they are the only ones selling "(JLR), the parent company, which has seen the bulk of its sales rely on just three models: the Range Rover, Range Rover Sport, and Land Rover Defender."

Ethiopia has banned all ICE sales Not going particularly well for them!!

Why they did it is interesting " Minister Alemu Sime stated, “Having spent around USD6 billion (about RM28 billion) last year importing fossil fuels, Ethiopia’s Ministry of Transport and Logistics has just decided to allow only electric vehicles (https://www.dsf.my/2024/02/2025-porsche-taycan-facelift-revealed/) to enter the country.” "

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ work both ways of course It may work when " Ethiopia has also been a major investor in energy infrastructure as of late. For example, Africa (https://www.dsf.my/2023/12/two-malaysians-journey-15000km-across-africa-in-a-toyota-land-crusier/)’s largest hydroelectric power plant is due there soon, having already been partially commissioned on 20 February 2022 with the commissioning of the first two turbines with a total capacity of 750 megawatts." ICE Officially Banned In Ethiopia, First EV Only Country (https://www.dsf.my/2024/02/ethiopia-officially-becomes-first-country-to-ban-ice-cars-evs-only-there/#:~:text=While%20less%20affluent%20countries%20hav e%20been%20the%20dumping,putting%20Ethiopia%20abou t%20ten%20years%20ahead%20of%20schedule.)

Currently a very poor power supply, poor or expensive spare parts and no repair capacity in Ethiopia is making a mess!

EVs are currently expensive, battery tech is about to change significantly as the current can burn as frequently pointed out by many [biggrin] (Shhh about our petrol or diesel fires being much more likely to occur of course)

"[B]Ford CEO Jim Farley is building anticipation of the US carmaker’s upcoming mid-sized electric pickup, tipped to be similar in size to the best-selling Ranger (https://www.carexpert.com.au/ford/ranger/).
In August (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-ranger-ev-electric-ute-locked-in-for-2027), Ford announced a dedicated ‘skunkworks’ team in California is currently developing a new electric vehicle (EV) platform which aims to be cheaper to produce – and more affordable for buyers – than its current electric models."

Not suggesting California dreaming is not part of above[biggrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3GbF9Bx6E

I am going Hunting tonight in an EV[bigrolf] I recall a Navy mate killing himself laughing at me for riding a Honda VT250F11 from Sydney to Western Vic. He felt my 250cc was far to small to do it. It did it about 10 times and back. I have to admit the BMW k100 in later trips around the country was a smoother ride of course. Evangelism for fair and reasonable, running and life is fine with me. The car, truck or bike you ride is your call entirely. The way some drive, ride, walk is not fair and reasonable:rulez::rulez::rulez: I get grumpy with multi lane hogs and red light runners thinking about past events sometimes [bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

NavyDiver

5th November 2024, 07:17 AM

Musk is pricing them cheaper yet not selling as many.

Deliveries of Tesla’s electric vehicles (EVs) in Australia have fallen once again, with the US brand now recording its eighth monthly sales decline this year and its seventh in a row.According to data published by the Electric Vehicle Council (EVC), Tesla delivered 1464 EVs to Australian customers in October, representing a 26.4 per cent drop on the same month a year prior.
USA was "Tesla’s sales for the quarter came in at nearly 444,000 cars, down about 5% from a year ago. That’s less than the 8.5% drop the company saw in the first quarter. But Tesla, and its share price that has made CEO Elon Musk one of the wealthiest people in the world, has been built on a history of growing auto sales."

Share price seems stable??

"
Summary

Overambitious Promises: Tesla’s plans for RoboTaxis and humanoid robots face major regulatory, tech, and timeline hurdles, casting doubt on near-term feasibility.
Recent financials show slowing automotive growth, heavy reliance on regulatory credits, and a challenging competitive Tesla's Overpromised Future And Overvalued Stock (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha (https://seekingalpha.com/article/4732749-teslas-overpromised-future-and-overvalued-stock)

" Promises Promises?[bighmmm]

scarry

5th November 2024, 07:45 AM

Musk is pricing them cheaper yet not selling as many.

According to data published by the Electric Vehicle Council (EVC), Tesla delivered 1464 EVs to Australian customers in October, representing a 26.4 per cent drop on the same month a year prior.
]

What were the total Australian EV sales for the month,all brands?Or better still,2024 so far?
This will give a more accurate picture on whether total sales are declining or just Tesla?

PhilipA

5th November 2024, 10:30 AM

Even the electric vehicle council obviously sees a problem with EVs as they now lump together hybrids which was obnoxious to them.
Australia on track to break annual electric vehicle sales milestone - Electric Vehicle Council (https://electricvehiclecouncil.com.au/media-releases/australia-on-track-to-break-annual-electric-vehicle-sales-milestone/)
Of the 100000 I bet about 70-80K would be hybrids.
Regards PhilipA

scarry

5th November 2024, 12:06 PM

NavyDiver

6th November 2024, 06:06 PM

What were the total Australian EV sales for the month,all brands?Or better still,2024 so far?
This will give a more accurate picture on whether total sales are declining or just Tesla?

Just saw this "The MG 4 (https://www.carexpert.com.au/mg/mg4/) has taken a unique place in Australian automotive history, becoming the first electric vehicle (EV) to outsell Tesla in a month – at least since the US brand started publishing local sales figures more than two and half years ago.
In October 2024, MG delivered 1486 examples of its small electric hatchback, almost doubling its previous monthly sales record of 835 deliveries set in November 2023, and more than tripling its monthly average of 419 deliveries between January and September."

Tesla loses top spot to MG in EV sales charts | The Courier | Ballarat, VIC (https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/8812988/tesla-loses-top-spot-to-mg-in-ev-sales-charts/)

Not that it matters [biggrin] big news is years away perhaps?

PhilipA

6th November 2024, 07:21 PM

Sales increases tend to happen when you drop the price by up to 30% but only for a while.
Regards philipA

NavyDiver

7th November 2024, 06:07 AM

Sales increases tend to happen when you drop the price by up to 30% but only for a while.
Regards philipA

Ditto for Tesla I think. BYD did a number on the former number ONE top selling EV manufacturer. Honestly wondering how Musk resolves the huge Chinese plants Tesla has and the changes yesterday[bigwhistle].

Share price for Tesla in US was up as some clearly think it's not an issue? I missed the 1 million $ give away [bigrolf]

DoubleChevron

11th November 2024, 08:22 AM

NavyDiver

14th November 2024, 11:18 AM

I still see the main EV problem being battery fires. I always thought it was the old batteries in storage that torched these places off as regularly as clockwork. The process to make the black sludge also causes the fires. Are we processing the black sludge anywhere in the world yet .... Or is it being used like a weird greeny currency fetish [bigwhistle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bas81OsV9Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bas81OsV9Y

the youtube StacheD training is quite interesting with the stuff it posts with regards to battery fires. Its not not anti-ev, its simply states the issues we are having with all lithium batteries. even the little ones used in ecigaretes.

Putting any battery in the rubbish is [bighmmm][bighmmm][bighmmm]

On another topic- Cheap EVs a good or bad thing is a matter of which side of the transaction your on perhaps?

"In announcing its third-quarter (July-September) 2024 results to shareholders, Hertz reported a loss of $US1.3 billion ($AU2 billion) with the majority being losses from its ex-rental electric vehicle sell-off.The company says it is targeting an average of below $US300 ($AU460) in monthly depreciation for each vehicle, but it’s latest reported figure is nearly double at $US537 ($AU823).
The vehicle depreciation bill for the third-quarter was a staggering $US937 million ($AU1.43 billion)."

Homestar

20th November 2024, 10:45 AM

Just saw this "The MG 4 (https://www.carexpert.com.au/mg/mg4/) has taken a unique place in Australian automotive history, becoming the first electric vehicle (EV) to outsell Tesla in a month – at least since the US brand started publishing local sales figures more than two and half years ago.
In October 2024, MG delivered 1486 examples of its small electric hatchback, almost doubling its previous monthly sales record of 835 deliveries set in November 2023, and more than tripling its monthly average of 419 deliveries between January and September."

Tesla loses top spot to MG in EV sales charts | The Courier | Ballarat, VIC (https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/8812988/tesla-loses-top-spot-to-mg-in-ev-sales-charts/)

Not that it matters [biggrin] big news is years away perhaps?

Indeed, the MG4 is doing well - but it's toppling of Tesla is only because their sales numbers have plummeted - Model 3 sales are down by 75% compared to earlier in the year. The MG4 and some other Chinese EV's are increasing - it does show that Tesla are considered a premium product and that most can't afford to go that way - if these numbers are being reflected globally (I haven't checked) then it would be a real worry to them - but most won't see this until they turn turtle one day and they'll all scream 'no one saw this coming' [biggrin]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=191788&d=1732063501

191788

PhilipA

20th November 2024, 02:39 PM

This was the month that they dropped prices of 2023 stock from 39990 (AFAIR) to 29990. The fact that they had 2023 stock in big numbers says the opposite to what you are putting forwards. I would also like to know how many were dealer registered. this is an old ploy in the industry, usually in December.
Regards PhilipA

spudfan

30th November 2024, 05:12 AM

Jaguar Will Buy Back Thousands Of I-Pace EVs That Could Catch Fire
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/cars/news/jaguar-will-buy-back-thousands-of-i-pace-evs-that-could-catch-fire/ar-AA1uZhrv?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=ec94dbee81504e798b1598b73dda0b32&ei=10

Tins

30th November 2024, 10:17 AM

spudfan

30th November 2024, 11:20 AM

The article states that owing to the age of the vehicles (still quite young by Defender standards!) they will not be paying a huge amount for each vehicle. Wonder if JLR offered to buy back the Defenders with badly welded axles or the Discovery's with the dodgy engines, how much they would pay for each vehicle?

NesserJo

1st December 2024, 03:02 PM

EVs are so quiet

spudfan

5th December 2024, 06:20 AM

I suppose if you do not do many miles and do not carry much weight they make a suitable vehicle. Like this for example.
The Pope's New Ride Is This Electric G-Class
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/cars/news/the-pope-s-new-ride-is-this-electric-g-class/ar-AA1vhvfg?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=644b0410175a4e7f8d52f46a03d84da4&ei=23

Saitch

5th December 2024, 07:16 AM

Holy Cow! Look at the size of the aircon. Must be pretty hot, where they're planning on going?

austastar

5th December 2024, 07:32 AM

Such a good investment of the tythes from the poor and hungry.
D

spudfan

5th December 2024, 08:40 AM

Wonder what the resale value will be? Would not like to be driving it over here on a wet and windy day!

Tins

5th December 2024, 10:17 AM

EVs are so quiet

Unless they're burning.

Saitch

5th December 2024, 12:00 PM

Such a good investment of the tythes from the poor and hungry.
D

I have wondered in the past, about "Their Holiness' " extolling the virtues of Paradise and then seeing them do everything they can to avoid going there. [biggrin]

PhilipA

5th December 2024, 12:45 PM

MB give them to them for free I bet , just like LR and the King and the rest of the Royals.
Regards PhilipA

DoubleChevron

6th December 2024, 08:36 AM

Unless they're burning.

They are still pretty quiet while burnign I guess (unless they explode)..... All the sirens and screaming people probably aren't that quiet though [bigwhistle] [bigwhistle] I see the electric cars punting around .... and have this irristable urge to buy a new car. I'm thinking after watching the grand tour and "for the love of cars" .... I really need a triump stag. The more I see electric cars, the more I think something like this is the future. You see compared to an electric car, the Triump is reliable, its range is just out of the world incredible. It will work in hot and cold weather. It takes mere minutes to recharge. I won't get locked inside it, if it burns, it shouldn't cremate me quicker than you can blink.

Its the future .... Gimme, gimme .... what a machine [bigrolf]

Captain_Rightfoot

6th December 2024, 09:18 AM

Lol.. I see 381 pages this thread is just rocking the EV hatred. Lol.

I present a perhaps more informed look than typical in here at EV fires..

https://youtu.be/GhVt1d6uLrI'si=fzxAE1NMyNHzxG-L

DoubleChevron

6th December 2024, 10:41 AM

Lol.. I see 381 pages this thread is just rocking the EV hatred. Lol.

I present a perhaps more informed look than typical in here at EV fires..

https://youtu.be/GhVt1d6uLrI'si=fzxAE1NMyNHzxG-L

I don't have EV's ... they are fascinating. I HATE the lunacy surrounding them though. the ideology that is driving there implementation is nuts.

PhilipA

6th December 2024, 04:06 PM

I have to think that Robert Pepper was either duped on this one or deliberately ignored the elephant in the room.
The burned Tesla was a standard range with LiFePo4 battery and. It just shows. How resilient they are. if the same damage was on an LMC or other battery there would be nothing left to look at and it would have taken possibly days to put out.
regards PhilipA

Captain_Rightfoot

6th December 2024, 04:21 PM

350RRC

7th December 2024, 11:01 AM

Lol.. I see 381 pages this thread is just rocking the EV hatred. Lol.

I present a perhaps more informed look than typical in here at EV fires..

https://youtu.be/GhVt1d6uLrI'si=fzxAE1NMyNHzxG-L

The dog in the vid is hilarious........ going to **** on it but the wheel is missing.

DL

Captain_Rightfoot

10th December 2024, 08:48 AM

The dog in the vid is hilarious........ going to **** on it but the wheel is missing.

DL

Also dispelling the myth that no one would **** on an EV. :D

I can confirm that my dog prefers the defender but it might be because it's closer to the door. [bighmmm]

NavyDiver

16th December 2024, 06:55 AM

Booked my 40,000 km service. https://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif I loved my Disco just not the twice a year servicing and fuel cost!

While mostly very happy with my MG4 the fact MG has not fixed the car going into reverse when in Drive and stopping is shocking really. Its only IF using One Pedal driving so not really an issue as you have a PITA menu to turn that on

"Job# 1 88MGZZZZZZZZ02 Tech(s): 2000 Internal
Labour Operation Description Units Amount

Misc

CHECK FOR VEHICLE GOES INTO REVERSE WHEN BRAKING AND
ACCELERATING AFTER HARD BRAKE, REFER OPEN RO AND TECH CASE.
CHECKED FOR CUSTOMER CONCERN, CARRIED OUT DTC AND FOUND NO
FAULTS. STARTED TECH CASE WITH MG, AND FOUND TO BE NORMAL
OPERATION OF VEHICLE. [B]ABLE TO REPRODUCE FAULT EVERYTIME AS
VEHICLE WAS DESIGNED TO DO."

This is from the dealer! Reproduce the car going backwards fault then suggest the car is designed to do it? https://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifhttps://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif I am amazed

Tombie

16th December 2024, 01:00 PM

So… let it do it. Then back into the bulbar of a tradie behind you.

Capture it all on dash cams.

Start courts case with MG

Tins

16th December 2024, 01:31 PM

I know that MG passed into foreign hands, but I expected better reverse engineering from the new owner than that.

NavyDiver

22nd December 2024, 12:05 PM

I know that MG passed into foreign hands, but I expected better reverse engineering from the new owner than that.

I will say that when it gets its 40,000km service in January. Thanks JT[thumbsupbig]

Mr Musk is all over the news for reasons other than EVs at times. This one is interesting "Cybertruck assembly line workers were told to stay home (https://insideevs.com/news/743007/tesla-cybertruck-assembly/?utm_source=msn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn-feed) for three days at the start of December, hinting that there may be a demand problem. Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-price-war-cheaper-cars-expected-drive-record-sales-2023-03-31/) is now highlighting data that shows used Cybertrucks are taking far longer than expected to sell than earlier in the year, up to 75 days compared to 27 days in May, which should mean there’s a much higher chance that you can negotiate the price down and get a good deal on a used Cybertruck (https://insideevs.com/news/719965/tesla-cybertruck-used-resale-profit/?utm_source=msn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn-feed).https://assets.msn.com/staticsb/statics/latest/views/icons/textExpand_filled.svg

Continue reading"

spudfan

22nd December 2024, 10:59 PM

From a Sunday newspaper.

austastar

23rd December 2024, 07:03 AM

Pedal ya bar stewards, pedal!
Cheers

Tins

23rd December 2024, 08:40 AM

Someone's up for a Knighthood. Or, should that be night hood?

NavyDiver

6th January 2025, 08:21 AM

Another which MIGHT be here

The good:
IT can possibly tow my boat
The Bad:
Only 400v not 800v tech

https://youtu.be/A2fq2JcWk9E'si=nOe52mW6asw2OL39
https://youtu.be/A2fq2JcWk9E'si=nOe52mW6asw2OL39

The interesting:
The Australian dealer groups are:

BalancedBrick International, Queensland
GWS Automotive Group, Victoria,
James Frizelle’s Automotive Group, Queensland
Kevin Dennis Motors, Victoria
Knox Auto, Victoria
Peter Warren Automotive, NSW
Rex Gorell, Victoria

Dealers for other states will be announced later.

Geely announces dealers (https://premium.goauto.com.au/geely-announces-dealers/)

Tins

6th January 2025, 08:36 AM

I'd be more interested in whether your boat could tow the ute, James.

Tins

6th January 2025, 08:40 AM

While not specifically EV related, it has to be said that that CyberTruck in Vegas did a remarkable job in containing that explosion. Sure, it was more fire than blast, and it had a way out straight up, but I wonder if a Great Wall would have indeed been a great wall in the way the Tesla was.

Tins

6th January 2025, 08:49 AM

Withdrawn

NavyDiver

7th January 2025, 09:49 AM

I'd be more interested in whether your boat could tow the ute, James.

What ever floats your boat JT [biggrin] As a Diver I like underwater as well of course. The EV ute wadding depth just short of a Landrover Driving Through Water | Find All Wading Depths | Land Rover (https://www.landrover.com/ownership/off-road/wading-depths.html)
Add the Head up display and over a tonne payload and I was sold it's as good as descripted in reports. [bighmmm][bighmmm][bighmmm]

Tombie

7th January 2025, 10:27 AM

Love how in the YouTube video they state the big battery has 600km range.

Then later in the same company video state it’s good for 400km range.

Add towing and it should make it to the local boat ramp and back if you live within 50km

Tins

7th January 2025, 11:00 AM

Tins

7th January 2025, 11:02 AM

What ever floats your boat JT

You know as well as I do that I don’t have a boat, James.

discorevy

7th January 2025, 02:31 PM

The way I saw it was the 600km range was from their wagon version with 100kw battery pack, and 400 odd k's was the ute version with the 73.9kw pack, but yes, you wouldn't want to be more than 100k's from the ramp unless it could be charged at the ramp while you were out tearing around with your 2 stroke :) ( there's nothin' dad likes more, other than tranquillity)

Captain_Rightfoot

7th January 2025, 02:56 PM

Cheap Leaf if anyone is interested. :o

If you lived in a cooler part of Aus might be worth thinking about given the passive battery cooling. 8 year battery warranty assuming Nissan is still around in 8 years.

Nissan Leaf prices slashed, now starting under $A35,000 (https://thedriven.io/2025/01/06/nissan-leaf-prices-slashed-now-starting-under-a35000/)

Captain_Rightfoot

7th January 2025, 03:19 PM

Also cheap Cupra Born - the VW id3 in drag. I can't see the id3 making it here at this rate.

Cupra slashes prices on Born EV by up to 25 pct to kickstart electric sales in 2025 (https://thedriven.io/2025/01/05/cupra-slashes-prices-on-born-ev-by-up-to-25-pct-to-kickstart-electric-sales-in-2025/)

V8Ian

8th January 2025, 12:57 AM

192341

You'd expect his face to light up.

Tins

8th January 2025, 07:57 AM

NavyDiver

8th January 2025, 05:26 PM

You know as well as I do that I don’t have a boat, James.

Your boat my boat or sometimes our cars float JT[bigrolf][bigrolf]

NavyDiver

9th January 2025, 12:11 PM

Just did my first service at 43,000 km. They did a check at 1000km two years ago.

Brakes are all good Tick- regen braking rocks in my thoughts
Tires all need replacement now- Sort of expected as it takes off like my faster motorcycles [thumbsupbig]
Wheel alignment suggested

A little tickle and check. I noticed it on a hoist with all wheels off when I went for a walk.

AC satiation option was taken- Total cost including that was $467. Not bad at all I felt. The MG4 will be gone some time this year for a tow capable ute I think. That will make my dog happy and as that allows another hoby of mine involving bring home a lot of free meat the ute option is inbound as soon as a suitable option arrives here.

Now the other side is of course resale value. 23-25,000 found via Free Car Valuation - How Much Is My Car Worth? | Drive (https://www.drive.com.au/cars-for-sale/whats-my-car-worth/)

The prior XS ev held it value better. Noting the New price dropped by 10K so I am not shocked.

Running costs if assumed 30cents per kwh and 15kWh used per 100km (I had a lot of solar input[biggrin] and a fair bit of slow charging at home power rated. The fast charging on long trips was at about $050 so the assumption is possibly about right.

Assumed charging Cost <$2000 Total running cost is clearly not just service and charging!

prelude

9th January 2025, 08:21 PM

I stumbled across an interesting video regarding EV's and the auto industry, thought I'd share:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h8K58qhMaI

-P

RANDLOVER

10th January 2025, 08:09 AM

What did they say about the going into reverse business?

Just did my first service at 43,000 km. They did a check at 1000km two years ago.

Brakes are all good Tick- regen braking rocks in my thoughts
Tires all need replacement now- Sort of expected as it takes off like my faster motorcycles [thumbsupbig]
Wheel alignment suggested

A little tickle and check. I noticed it on a hoist with all wheels off when I went for a walk.

AC satiation option was taken- Total cost including that was $467. Not bad at all I felt. The MG4 will be gone some time this year for a tow capable ute I think. That will make my dog happy and as that allows another hoby of mine involving bring home a lot of free meat the ute option is inbound as soon as a suitable option arrives here.

Now the other side is of course resale value. 23-25,000 found via Free Car Valuation - How Much Is My Car Worth? | Drive (https://www.drive.com.au/cars-for-sale/whats-my-car-worth/)

The prior XS ev held it value better. Noting the New price dropped by 10K so I am not shocked.

Running costs if assumed 30cents per kwh and 15kWh used per 100km (I had a lot of solar input[biggrin] and a fair bit of slow charging at home power rated. The fast charging on long trips was at about $050 so the assumption is possibly about right.

Assumed charging Cost <$2000 Total running cost is clearly not just service and charging!

NavyDiver

10th January 2025, 10:20 AM

What did they say about the going into reverse business?

Its apparently not an issue[bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

I have spread that widely including to a government type who seems not interested interestingly [bigwhistle]

Update- 3 "bridgestone turanza 235/45 R18" have 3mm left and one is just under legal The OEM Tyre costs $380ish each. My Disco tyres cost about the same!

Found another option which is $231 each. EV tyres are not a cheap as some perhaps. Lower rolling resistance and other bits like stopping and not slipping I suppose [biggrin]

V8Ian

20th February 2025, 10:43 PM

https://youtu.be/Hxogyd_vOds'si=s70IihkEBt8FgjpG

As pointed out, even the Koreans are offering ten year warranties. It's not good enough for a premium brand.

NavyDiver

24th February 2025, 12:50 PM

https://youtu.be/Hxogyd_vOds'si=s70IihkEBt8FgjpG

As pointed out, even the Koreans are offering ten year warranties. It's not good enough for a premium brand.

Cannot see the video but agree re warranties. 7 to 10 years is now about standard. The Economic side of me knows that we pay for every cent of everything we get of course[bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf].

Car parks for example are free at many supermarkets. Wrong- The huge price for so called free parking is factored in to the rents and sale price of every development [bighmmm][bighmmm][bighmmm]

In EV news I noted BMW and the always cool mini are not always as cool as they once were. Knocking back million is subsidies is a economic example again.

"BMW has confirmed it is delaying the reintroduction of electric vehicle production at its Oxford Mini plant.The vehicle manufacturer said "multiple uncertainties facing the automotive industry" had led to its decision decision to pause work on the £600m upgrade of its plant in Cowley.
It said it had decided not to accept a related £60m grant from the government but remained in "close dialogue".
The UK automotive industry has been in a long-running debate with the government over its targets for electric vehicle production."

Personally I thought the cheap and cheerful old minis were and are cool. My dad climbing into one was a very funny memory. He was a very big gent! I also felt the high price for the Newish mini was very overpriced years ago[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

NavyDiver

13th March 2025, 03:49 PM

Electric G wagon cost less than the ICE and can do some off road stuff the ICE would struggle with?

2025 Mercedes-Benz G580 price and specs: G-Wagen EV priced for Australia | CarExpert (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/2025-mercedes-benz-g580-price-and-specs-g-wagen-ev-priced-for-australia)

https://images.carexpert.com.au/crop/800/533/app/uploads/2024/04/2025-mercedes-benz-g-580-with-eq-technology-electric-g-wagon-eqg-9.jpg

"Priced from $249,900 before on-road costs, it’s almost $120,000 less expensive than the G63 AMG (https://www.carexpert.com.au/mercedes-amg/amg-g), however this price gap is reduced if you buy the limited-run Edition One, loaded with equipment not available on the base model."

Not for me. I saw a Geely dealer in Doncaster and a brand new dealer show room in Geelong. Geelong is so new it's totally empty [biggrin][biggrin]

No news from them on the 2025 Riddara RD6 and nothing at a Sydney shin dig for its EX5. I did drive the EX5. Technically it and the Xpeng g6 can tow my boat. The ute fits the dog and camping 4wd a lot better for me. Waiting as usual

The other UTE which is perhaps about here is a LDV and BYD rumors[bighmmm]

While looking for that another sexy perhaps? one is inbound to match the CyberStar MG or EV porches perhaps JAC’s sleek EV coming to Australia | CarExpert (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/jacs-sleek-ev-coming-to-australia)

101RRS

14th March 2025, 03:07 PM

vnx205

14th March 2025, 05:56 PM

350RRC

15th March 2025, 09:00 AM

I am think of getting a PHEV for my next vehicle. ...........................

Garry

Last weekend's Oz, in the review section, there was an article on the BYD PHEV 4 door ute.

AWD, 1.5l turbo petrol, 2.0l per 100 as an EV, 800 km combined range. Looks like a ranger and is about the same size.

Reviewer gave it 4 stars, and he's not really an EV fan. Can 'only' carry 700kg, pull 2.5 tonnes.

$58k + on road costs.

Just search BYD shark 6

cheers, DL

101RRS

15th March 2025, 05:15 PM

I noticed that there are quite a few charging points at the expanded Pheasant's Nest service centre.

Last weekend a number of them were occupied, but i didn't notice if they were being used as charging bays or parking spots.

I was there earlier this week - and a number were filled with EVs just parked - none charging - it saves a walk to the Food Court.

Tombie

17th March 2025, 03:47 PM

Last weekend's Oz, in the review section, there was an article on the BYD PHEV 4 door ute.

AWD, 1.5l turbo petrol, 2.0l per 100 as an EV, 800 km combined range. Looks like a ranger and is about the same size.

Reviewer gave it 4 stars, and he's not really an EV fan. Can 'only' carry 700kg, pull 2.5 tonnes.

$58k + on road costs.

Just search BYD shark 6

cheers, DL

And when towing burns 20l/100km of Premium petrol.

Offroad in Rawnsley park - no Low Range limits its rollover (crawl) requiring “bouncing” up objects. And chewed 14l/100km because they wanted to use the power stored whilst camping.

One interesting thing - Battery hangs below chassis - so be careful there!

V8Ian

18th March 2025, 10:47 AM

NavyDiver

18th March 2025, 11:04 AM

I am think of getting a PHEV for my next vehicle. As such, while one does not really need to use commercial recharge facilities I have been noting where they are. Ikea has quite a few charging points and the last time I checked they were all occupied with EVs, BUT not one was actually using the charging facilities, EV owners seem to think that charging spots are valid parking spots even when not charging.

Driving back from Newcastle to Canberra, there are a few charging spots at various service stations, but as for Ikea most bays were filled with EVs - not being charged.

These EV owners are a self entitled lot.

On PHEVs, until recently the best were arguably the RAV4 (not available in Aust) and the Outlander with about 75 to 80km range on battery. However recently a few of the Chinese makes have released PHEVs with around 150km which is a bonus but I am not a fan of Chinese vehicles. So hopefully Japanese and other makers of PHEVs will catch up to the Chinese by the time I am ready to buy, if not the trusty old RRS will have to soldier on.

Garry
Some Mothers do Have them! [thumbsupbig]

Its clear some are entitled pratts. 99% of the time I find no issues at all. The VIPs are sometimes kicked in the nuts by EV charging companies that do charge for staying when not charging. The SLOW charging spots at Ikea and such are really not what 99% of us would use. Fully support tow trucks removing tossers - sorry VIPs blocking access to anything including EV charging spots.[thumbsupbig]

Seen several hybrid Prados recently. Cleary Tojo is moving a bit faster now. 2025 Toyota Land Cruiser | Toyota.com (https://www.toyota.com/landcruiser/'msockid=03a7dd8789c365b512cfc8bb8829649f)

The GOV is possibly about to pull the FBT exemption on Hybrids? If your in for that a move soon might be worth considering.

EDIT April fool's day is so popular!!!!!!

From 1 April 2025, a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle will not be considered a zero or low emissions vehicle under fringe benefits tax (FBT) law and isn't eligible for the electric cars exemption.FBT on plug-in hybrid electric vehicles - Australian Taxation Office (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=2010a5f37e322118a3b5789588742de201399e1d5cccad88 3c8cbde1580fdadeJmltdHM9MTc0MjE2OTYwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=03a7dd87-89c3-65b5-12cf-c8bb8829649f&psq=hybrid+FBT+exemption&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYXRvLmdvdi5hdS9idXNpbmVzc2VzLW FuZC1vcmdhbmlzYXRpb25zL2hpcmluZy1hbmQtcGF5aW5nLXlv dXItd29ya2Vycy9mcmluZ2UtYmVuZWZpdHMtdGF4L3R5cGVzLW 9mLWZyaW5nZS1iZW5lZml0cy9mYnQtb24tY2Fycy1vdGhlci12 ZWhpY2xlcy1wYXJraW5nLWFuZC10b2xscy9mYnQtb24tcGx1Zy 1pbi1oeWJyaWQtZWxlY3RyaWMtdmVoaWNsZXMjOn46dGV4dD1G cm9tJTIwMSUyMEFwcmlsJTIwMjAyNSUyQyUyMGElMjBwbHVnLW luJTIwaHlicmlkJTIwZWxlY3RyaWMsYW5kJTIwaXNuJTI3dCUy MGVsaWdpYmxlJTIwZm9yJTIwdGhlJTIwZWxlY3RyaWMlMjBjYX JzJTIwZXhlbXB0aW9uLg&ntb=1)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAA f8/9hAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACxjwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZ cwAADsIAAA7CARUoSoAAAAI9SURBVDhPlVM9S7JRGH72Bn CW4ub9AcchAZHBXchh1wcanBRUCH8KEHRKSkLEcUv1JTyI1SU1 JbCMQpqDBd1UPRc73Pfr48W7/RecHPu5/64znWfcx5JCLHe2P C 34RrNc7HvKxAfmr1epXXsaWQEkoxVgul xHo1FcXl6yT3GlhlaFjAk24CKCy VCpVJBIpFALBbjWD6fx2Kx4OaNMSRKkjzaVf7mYrPZjJOTE3x fuL7 xu9Xg92u51zhOl0ivl8zsVM8PLyIgq****ol8uQJAkGgwFer5f H0Gq1MJlMrOjt7Q13d3cYDAY7goeHB3FxcYF6vQ6VSgWNRoOjo yMmCAQCrGhvb4 J1Wo1zs/PMRqNdgTv7 9iOBzC4XBwkdVqRTgchsViwfHxMW5ubhCPx7G/vw dTodWq4Wvr6 /BN1uV3g8HkFS9Xo9Dg4OeN5kMolQKIRgMMjNpJC b29v UBldaJarQrp8fFRXF9fi7OzM1ZARrsajUb2aQSbzQan0wm3241 sNounpyf0 33R6XSERPJzuZygayOTfT6LYrHITT6fD6VSiWVnMhlcXV2h0Wi gVquJ2WwmpMlkIl5fX8Xz8zMX0Ci0M83t9/sRiUSQTqdxenrK VQqxdcqqxB0lfyQ6DBoGY/HoMNst9u4v7/nqzw8PIQ8KzfJJ49ms7l9cNT7z1MmkE/3TbuRko PD47LD45zZPT4CNufiUh GoG7ZJCvxAgbn/u2BBRR8JNIaVTWH5ADYv0HluJZU5NMQgcAAAAASUVORK5CYII=
404 - Page not found | Australian Taxation Office (http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-and-paying-your-workers/f…)

PhilipA

18th March 2025, 04:23 PM

Did you read the Car Sales test of the hybrid Prado?
the one where the tester went through a water splash a bit fast and the 48V shorted out and killed the whole car?
weird thing is that the water apparently got into the 48V via the air filter box. How unlike Toyota. (sarc)
Regards PhilipA

V8Ian

18th March 2025, 04:53 PM

Not sure if it was the same one, but the similar event that I heard of, Toyota refused warranty, claiming excessive speed through water.

PhilipA

20th March 2025, 02:44 PM

Tins

20th March 2025, 03:20 PM

It was a Toyota press test car, but yes they blamed the driver saying he went through water too fast.
But have you ever been driving along at wet road at 100Kmh and hit a sheet of water? I have.
He was going much slower say 20-40Kmh for a photo shoot and the water was only about 150-200MM deep. Somehow it got through the air filter element and into the breather for the 48V system.
To me not acceptable and very high cost if happens to private buyer and warranty denied.
Regards PhilipA
I have hit water at night that felt like hitting a wall. The Disco survived. Same thing with the OKA.
Toyota had a thing about wriggling out of responsibility. Like blaming an aftermarket exhaust for a clutch failure on HiLux.
But they haven’t lost a sale here, because there’s no way I would have been buying one anyway.

oldyella 76

20th March 2025, 07:20 PM

There was a Tesla over in pommy land had the same issue, a woman was driving through a heave rain storm and there was water pooling on the road. It stopped, on a tilt to a dealer and 20 grand later to replace all batteries as they had shorted out.
Lindsay

RANDLOVER

20th March 2025, 09:28 PM

I have hit water at night that felt like hitting a wall. The Disco survived. Same thing with the OKA.
Toyota had a thing about wriggling out of responsibility. Like blaming an aftermarket exhaust for a clutch failure on HiLux.
But they haven’t lost a sale here, because there’s no way I would have been buying one anyway.

Also scary is hitting water spilling onto the road from the left hand gutter at that speed, which feels like it is trying to wrench the steering wheel out of your hands.

PhilipA

21st March 2025, 03:07 PM

Just for the uninitiated, I believe that this webpage describes the system used in most hybrid 48V systems. Being Japanese Toyota may have a Nippon Denso version, but Bosch I believe patented this many years ago.
How much money do you think a replacement would cost?

Integrated motor-generator (https://www.bosch-mobility.com/en/solutions/electric-motors/integrated-motor-generator/)
Regards PhilipA

Tins

1st April 2025, 02:44 PM

Also scary is hitting water spilling onto the road from the left hand gutter at that speed, which feels like it is trying to wrench the steering wheel out of your hands.
Something it often accomplishes.

NavyDiver

4th April 2025, 05:02 AM

EV ute dream is still just that. Dropped in the Western district brand new Geely showroom and had a surprising chat. Geely ev X5 and polestar only no ute.

The gent in the showroom has worked for the large Motor dealer for over a decade and chuckled about him being a total Petrol Head who loves the Polestar which is his daily drive for being perfect[bigrolf].

The bad news for me was the RD6 ute news is nada. The Melbourne motor show 2025 this week will have the LDV eTerron 9 for display only not for sale or dates yet. He mentions tow bars will be a issue for cars from China in his thoughts as well.

I give up- Going to pinch a police car to tow my boat to the water[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

It's a holden omega I brought for my parents which mum many not need any longer. If not the touchy feely dents from her parking issues may see a bit of home panel fixing with a bit of 4x2[bigrolf] If that works, I'll wait for a 1000km plus range with 5 minute charging time EV 4wd ute or Disco like replacement.

One that won't burn when charging as well of course [bigrolf]

Saitch

4th April 2025, 08:32 AM

The gent in the showroom has worked for the large Motor dealer for over a decade and chuckled about him being a total Petrol Head who loves the Polestar which is his daily drive for being perfect[bigrolf].

My brother works for a Government Dept. in North Queensland. He gets to drive quite a few different EVs and really likes the Polestar.

A big issue with their EVs is that, for 15+ units, there are 3 chargers! I just love bureaucratic bungling, ay! :Thump:

Tins

5th April 2025, 09:29 AM

https://youtu.be/fxVucc2fX-w'si=dz5qNxxLMzf_50AR

Tins

8th April 2025, 09:03 AM

https://youtu.be/eZtoihp64Oo'si=wM0guxolLocKpf0Y

RANDLOVER

6th May 2025, 11:42 AM

EV ute dream is still just that. Dropped in the Western district brand new Geely showroom and had a surprising chat. Geely ev X5 and polestar only no ute........e [bigrolf]

This Geely ute looks almost certain to come to Aus and can probably tow your boat to the local ramp anyway.

2025 Riddara RD6 review | CarExpert (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2025-riddara-rd6-review)

NavyDiver

10th May 2025, 10:03 AM

This Geely ute looks almost certain to come to Aus and can probably tow your boat to the local ramp anyway.

2025 Riddara RD6 review | CarExpert (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2025-riddara-rd6-review)

Chatted to the local Geely dealer who is busy now with the current one. No Ute details yet.

Just saw "Volvo is discontinuing one of its electric SUVs in Australia, after only a few years on sale.
The Swedish-Chinese carmaker has confirmed it’s no longer bringing in any shipments of its C40 Recharge (https://www.carsguide.com.au/volvo/c40) battery-electric (https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/ev-battery-technology-explained-83111) ‘coupe’ (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/why-people-buy-coupes-even-though-theyre-not-perfect-35072) SUV (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/why-suvs-are-becoming-so-popular-34463) to Australia. There’s only dealer stock remaining."

The VW/Volvo evs prices are a bit hard to justify spending on with the 30K plus less cost of the luxurious Xpeng G6 for Geerly perhaps?

cripesamighty

11th May 2025, 10:22 AM

It could also be that with the new regulations that came in for mandatory safety features on vehicles (Auto emergency braking, lane keeping assist, driver monitoring, etc) , there will quite a few models of cars from several manufacturers which now don't meet the standards and are not being imported.

NavyDiver

26th May 2025, 02:46 PM

A real 4wd ev ute. Pick Up. 800km range and just may come to Australia?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9GuxH3V9D4&t=227s

RANDLOVER

26th May 2025, 04:42 PM

That'll definitely tow your boat, and promising that an Aussie is doing a piece on it, so it might come to Aus as Holden maybe, seeing as it is a Chevy.

vnx205

27th May 2025, 03:33 PM

Imagine if all motor vehicles were electric and somebody invented and started selling Internal Combustion Engined ones. Think how well they would sell:- a vehicle of half the weight, half the price, that does about a quarter of damage to the roads. A vehicle that can be refueled in minutes, a vehicle that has the range of up to four times the distance in all weather conditions. Does not rely on the environmentally damaging use of rare earth elements to power it and uses far less steel and other materials to build it.
Just think how excited people would be, it would sell like hotcakes!

OR

Imagine if all motor vehicles were electric and somebody started selling internal combustion engine ones.
Think of the posts on social media.
They would point out that the engine has thousands of moving parts that need to be cooled and lubricated. They would claim that it would only take one of those parts to fail to immobilise the vehicle.
They would also express some doubt that it would be possible to find mechanics who could be trusted to repair or even maintain such a complicated piece of machinery.
They would also criticise the engine for having such a narrow power band, such that it needed to add a box full of gears behind the engine to enable it to stay in that power band.
They would paint horror scenarios of people incinerated by the huge quantity of flammable liquid they required to run.
They would think it ridiculous that refuelling necessitated a trip to one of the inadequate number of fuel outlets.
They would probably even worry about the brain damage people would suffer when they became addicted to sniffing the fumes from the fuel that internal combustion engine use.
They would almost certainly be concerned about the death toll resulting from brake failures caused by lack of maintenance by people who had become accustomed to the benefits of regenerative braking.
They would post links to other posts by anonymous people who list fifty reasons why ICE vehicles are going to bring about the end of civilisation.
Many of them would know of someone who bought a ICE vehicle who developed some form of turbo cancer. They would insist that this is a widespread problem and that there should be a royal commision and that the people responsible for sales of ICE vehicles should be charged or executed or hung, drawn and quartered.
They would point out the correlation between ICE sales and the increased incidence of ADHD in schoolchildren.
Many would repeat ad nauseam that thay wouldn't take one even of it was given to them gratis.

Given the number of uninformed comments on social media and most people's aversion to anything different from the status quo, I fear that my scenario might be close to the mark.

JDNSW

27th May 2025, 04:18 PM

Have a read of some of the contemporary writing about motor vehicles when they first started to displace horse transport in the Edwardian period. A good place to start might be a children's book familiar to a lot of those reading this - "Wind in the Willows".

Graeme

27th May 2025, 04:24 PM

They would almost certainly be concerned about the death toll resulting from brake failures caused by lack of maintenance by people who had become accustomed to the benefits of regenerative braking.I realised today that my MHEV L405 slowed from 60 kph in traffic to almost stopped for traffic lights in quite a short distance without using brakes and therefore no brakelights for the vehicle behind!

RANDLOVER

27th May 2025, 04:50 PM

I realised today that my MHEV L405 slowed from 60 kph in traffic to almost stopped for traffic lights in quite a short distance without using brakes and therefore no brakelights for the vehicle behind!

I think all ev's whether mild, plug in, or other, put the brake lights on when the regen reaches a certain percentage of braking, I've seen figures as low as -4%.

TonyC

27th May 2025, 05:32 PM

Tins

27th May 2025, 06:10 PM

Do you know the brake lights weren't on, or assuming?

Tony

Good question. I know that the auto retarder on Scanias will illuminate them. I would assume the same here.

Graeme

27th May 2025, 07:35 PM

I just assumed that the brake lights weren't illuminated but I'll find a way to check. I know that if the EV system is disabled then there's no regenerative braking and the vehicle slows less than my previous 4.4TDV8 L322, which is why I re-enabled the EV system.

Captain_Rightfoot

31st May 2025, 04:27 PM

BYD has decided to cut out it's aussie distributor and will be direct only now.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/byd-goes-fully-factory-backed-in-australia-cutting-evdirect-from-distributorship/

Homestar

2nd June 2025, 06:40 AM

I realised today that my MHEV L405 slowed from 60 kph in traffic to almost stopped for traffic lights in quite a short distance without using brakes and therefore no brakelights for the vehicle behind!

There is no requirement in the ADR's (Yet) or any global standard that requires the brake lights to come on without the brake pedal being depressed so this is a known issue worldwide but the OEM's don't seem to be doing anything about it. You would think it's an easy fix using the vehicles accelerometer to activate the brake lights if it slows down quicker than a preset amount on regen but nope... There's a good video on Youtube from Technology Connections about it.

Captain_Rightfoot

2nd June 2025, 07:34 AM

There is no requirement in the ADR's (Yet) or any global standard that requires the brake lights to come on without the brake pedal being depressed so this is a known issue worldwide but the OEM's don't seem to be doing anything about it. You would think it's an easy fix using the vehicles accelerometer to activate the brake lights if it slows down quicker than a preset amount on regen but nope... There's a good video on Youtube from Technology Connections about it.
The first thing I did when I got the car home was check the brake lights came on when you lifted on the throttle into regen. Yes the tesla system does use them and it works well as it's quite normal to not use the brake pedal at all. Or else every tesla on the road would have had multiple rear enders.

Apparently some other manufacturers not so much. But few have the one pedal thing working as well.

NavyDiver

10th June 2025, 12:58 PM

There is no requirement in the ADR's (Yet) or any global standard that requires the brake lights to come on without the brake pedal being depressed so this is a known issue worldwide but the OEM's don't seem to be doing anything about it. You would think it's an easy fix using the vehicles accelerometer to activate the brake lights if it slows down quicker than a preset amount on regen but nope... There's a good video on Youtube from Technology Connections about it.

Mine has regen braking at Off. LVl 1 2 or three and full one pedal Driving. The brake lights activate for all except off of course [thumbsupbig]
Cut and paste from MG in EU

One pedal drivingIn the “most powerful” regeneration mode, the braking effect is even such, that you hardly need a brake pedal anymore. This is also known as “one pedal driving”. You will feel very comfortable with this new way of driving after a short while.
Depending on the selected regenerative braking mode, the braking lights will light up a soon as you lift the accelerator pedal and the regenerative braking kicks in with a certain braking force.

Mines set to LVL 3 regen 99% of the time. I barely have to use the brake with that.

Saitch

10th June 2025, 02:58 PM

I had to drive in some commuter type traffic recently. I was in the old Tojo 'tilly and minding my own business, when then was a sudden lack of traffic progression and several cars in front of me having to brake severely. I came to stop, quite quickly as well, about 1 metre, or a bit less, behind an EV (I'm thinking Kia/Hyundai people mover type). This EVs hazard lights flashed a few times, on my approach. Was this because of the 'tilly's proximity or the sudden braking of the EV? I'm certain the EV was at a standstill when it occurred.

Tins

10th June 2025, 05:18 PM

350RRC

16th June 2025, 02:53 PM

Teslas have ludicrous mode. Perhaps the Korean cars have a Panic mode.

I can remember the first set of traffic lights in Bali, that had only been in situ for about a month.

No matter what the colour the light was the Balinese would slow right down, put the hazards on and proceed slowly through the intersection.

Very civilised I thought.

JDNSW

16th June 2025, 07:20 PM

And aware of the way tourists drive/ride!

Eevo

16th June 2025, 08:06 PM

RANDLOVER

16th June 2025, 08:37 PM

why does an EV have an air filter box?

48 volt is a mild hybrid, so battery only runs ancillaries.

Graeme

16th June 2025, 09:26 PM

My MH L405 has 48V for stop-start and for a minor acceleration power contribution in traffic.

101RRS

16th June 2025, 10:18 PM

why does an EV have an air filter box?

Because it is not technically a full EV - only used electrics to get going and then the ICE engine takes over. - that is why it is called a Hybrid [thumbsupbig]

PhilipA

17th June 2025, 12:32 PM

I rented a car in Spain a few weeks ago and they supplied a BMW X1 diesel mild Hybrid. The hybrid part did low speed work in towns and assisted with acceleration at highway speeds. It really flew from 120Kmh to say 160Kmh . It was interesting to look at the Kms to empty as they would increase going downhill. It did about 7L per 100km in the two weeks I had it with most time on highway at 120Kmh.
Regards PhilipA

Saitch

17th June 2025, 04:40 PM

scarry

17th June 2025, 05:55 PM

We had a Hybrid Kluga in NZ for a few weeks.
I didn't clock the fuel economy,but it was pretty gutless,not much go at all.
Died in the arse whenever it saw a hill.

NavyDiver

5th July 2025, 12:12 PM

We had a Hybrid Kluga in NZ for a few weeks.
I didn't clock the fuel economy,but it was pretty gutless,not much go at all.
Died in the arse whenever it saw a hill.

Should have hired a real EV [biggrin] "Science Says Hard Acceleration Might Be Good For Your EV Battery" Science Says Hard Acceleration Might Be Good For Your EV Battery (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/science-says-hard-acceleration-might-be-good-for-your-ev-battery/ar-AA1HLSeh?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EDBBAN&cvid=baf6c32e59314ae9835b44c5fef1c850&ei=19)

Apparently my mg4 goes to 100 in 7.7 seconds. Not earth shattering yet great fun[bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

Narangga

15th July 2025, 07:53 PM

My Niro is now 12 months old. It has traveled 21,809km at 14.6 kWh/100km (Kia advertise 16.2). At the current gazetted NT retail energy price of $0.2921 per kW, that equates to $4.26 per 100km. Vehicle is doing exactly what it was purchased for so very happy.

46,689 km on the odometer all at 14.5kWh/100. Takes me to work - after I have dropped wife at her work, does the shopping, airport and other general runs. Only issue is the rubber boot over the hatch release button at the rear has perished and so I am waiting for a replacement (warranty).

Tombie

15th July 2025, 08:38 PM

46,689 km on the odometer all at 14.5kWh/100. Takes me to work - after I have dropped wife at her work, does the shopping, airport and other general runs. Only issue is the rubber boot over the hatch release button at the rear has perished and so I am waiting for a replacement (warranty).

What’s your insurance coverage / annual?
What’s current market value?

Narangga

16th July 2025, 07:04 PM

What’s your insurance coverage / annual?
What’s current market value?

Sorry if this isn't what you are asking:

1. Vehicle is leased so is insured at the amount still owed. Annual cost is $1,577
2. Less than what is owed which is mostly because of the cheaper vehicles being imported from China (including by Kia where as mine was made in Korea). Leased for 5 years and my intention was always to keep it much longer than that.

NavyDiver

31st July 2025, 01:06 PM

Purely for fun, don't get over excited!

I am thinking of swapping my ev for an ICE car ?.

1. I have heard that petrol cars cannot refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Will there be a solution for refuelling at home?

2. Which parts will I need to service and how often? The car salesman mentioned oil in the engine and timing belts that need replacing and a box with gears in it. What is this? How much will this service oil change cost and how often ? and what happens to the old oil. Also, apparently these petrol type cars generally stop on the brakes alone ? so the brakes wear out much faster ? how long will they last compared to my current car which lasts over 100k miles?

3. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill?

4. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?

5. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 8 times as much. Is this true?

6. Is it true that petrol is flammable?

7. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution?

8. I have also been told that you have to transport oil all over the world to turn into petrol or diesel, and these ships have in the past damaged the environment by leaking the oil.

9. I have heard that cars with internal combustion engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens? Is that true?

10. I have been told that these internal combustion engines make a noise when you start them ? so early starts can wake people up, and driving a lot of internal combustion engine cars in towns makes towns noisy.

11. is it true people can steal the fuel from your tank?

12. what is the drop in range in cold weather, I've been told a car that does 45mpg can drop to 37 mpg in winter ? just curious on that one.

13. a friend told me that the exhausts wear out ? is that true, and people steal them for the rare material used in them.

14. I was also told ? that the exhaust gas isn't good for you ? and if you leave the car running in a confined space ? like a garage ? you will die ? surely that isn't true is it?

15. next door told me ? these petrol cars ? carry around 40 to 60 litres of highly flammable liquid which is pumped into a steel cylinder, and its then exploded to generate expanding gas to move a piston, and turn linear motion into rotary motion. Why would anyone want thousands of explosions happening within a few feet of where your sitting.

16. a guy at work told me ? he has a petrol car, and it leaks oil. When he parks it ? surely that's not right is it ? leaving dirty marks on the floor and contaminating the environment so directly. How long before this happens if I change.

17. my dad told me ? if you buy a diesel car ? the hand pump smells very bad, and you have to wear special gloves to stop your hand smelling, and if you spill it on your clothes it terrible.

18. is it true ? the petrol and diesel is so dangerous, that you can only buy the fuel at a special filling station, and not anywhere (hotels/Car parks/Home/Work)?

19. while technology is advancing, will I ever be able to refuel my internal combustion car for free using only the sun?

20. would I be better off going straight to horse and cart, and not buying a horseless carriage

350RRC

1st August 2025, 09:01 PM

Purely for fun, don't get over excited!

[I]I am thinking of swapping my ev for an ICE car ?......................

And there is the recent post from Goingbush about the mains plan he's on and the service provider that charges nix for electron swaps between 11 and 2 daily when he puts 'petrol' in his Series LR that also produces 'petrol' every time he takes his foot off the accelerator.

DL

prelude

2nd August 2025, 11:23 PM

Captain_Rightfoot

3rd August 2025, 12:42 PM

I sometimes wonder whether I should still add to this thread since we are going around in circles. If you do not like EV's, you don't. If you like em, you do. There are still plenty of reasons for both sides to argue and I do not see anything that will significantly change the discussion on the distant horizon. Even newer battery tech is still by far not dense enough and the latest greatest ICE examples are not quite as efficient as we would like them to be, etc. etc.

The question coming to mind is: what does my recent calculation (just for sh... and giggles) add to this discussion? Has it not already been said before? Am I just wanting to shine light on the other side of the argument just because there is too much being said on this side?

For context, I am a Honda fan before I am a land rover fan (can you tell by my handle?) but Honda does not make a decent 4x4 (neither does land rover these days some argue but hey). In any case, my personal situation was changing once again last month so I was looking into a solution (details are a whole story in and of itself so I won't go into it here).

Being a Honda fan, there is just one EV I fancy and that is the Honda-e. It has a small range but it's a fun little runabout. Suffice it to say it has some limits and that has also brought to light the many challenges that come with charging. It was a nice trip down the technology and (im)possibilities and I can only come to the conclusion once again: it's just not for me.

So looking at that just for fun post, I can think of many a funny comeback but what does it matter :)

Cheers,
-P
I hardly bother in here any more. Many people in here are on the the EV's are #@$ side of the fence, and there is no changing.

Me.. I'm not a landrover fan, or a ford fan, or a mazda fan or whatever. I'm a car fan. I've never owned more than one car from any one brand. I look at what's out there and make a call at the time.

Our EV does what we want. We've owned it over two years now and never needed to charge out of the house. It has sufficient range to do what we want for our city car. It's quiet, comfortable, and very economical to run. So far there is nothing to suggest the battery is degrading (I know it's early days), but it so far exceeds our needs that if it did get a bit softer as it gets older it won't be an issue. The thing is - it's a large battery and we are only tickling it so I suspect it will last long time. In all likelihood the end of this car will be some little fender bender, or something which will cause it to be written off for economic reasons. Just like an ice car. I was looking at the early 2010's disco on carsales the other day "perfect condition but engine dead so written off."

If you objectively look at difference in the maintenance requirements between the EV and the Defender - I reckon I could throw a new battery at the EV every dozen years and still be an order of magnitude cheaper to run. But I really don't think we are going to have to. We are lucky enough to be able to afford two cars, and it's an ideal city car. And it's costing me $150 a year to do about 12000k in it.

Next week we are off for a weekend away. It's about 300k, so comfortably inside the range of the EV. The place we are staying has a free charger - so I'll take the EV and save the $120 on fuel I'd have to put into the Defender for a contribution to food for the weekend.

People need to stop listening to what we are being told to think. EV's are just cars with a battery. It's just progress. Yeah they won't do everything or suit all needs, but some things they do really well...

Arapiles

3rd August 2025, 08:46 PM

Basically, the world's changing and there are a lot of people who can't cope with change. There have been times in the past when the world was changing and the contests were between those moving with the times and those determined that things not change. The doppers and Luddites mostly lost. So, we're in a transitional time.

I do project finance and the writing's been on the wall for, for example, coal projects since the early 2000s. That's not a political point of view, it's the view of the hard-headed bankers and others who underwrite projects. You'll recall that the last Conservative government put up a pile of money to encourage developers to build new coal-powered power plants. As far as I'm aware they didn't get a single taker, and that's because given how cheap renewables are now it'd be almost impossible to get a coal project to FID.

So, electric cars - pure EV doesn't work for us at present since we don't have off-street parking but I've driven a lot of hybrids and the technology works perfectly. Our council does put in place on-street chargers for residents so I might see if they'd do it for us.

DoubleChevron

5th August 2025, 01:53 PM

I sometimes wonder whether I should still add to this thread since we are going around in circles. If you do not like EV's, you don't. If you like em, you do. There are still plenty of reasons for both sides to argue and I do not see anything that will significantly change the discussion on the distant horizon. Even newer battery tech is still by far not dense enough and the latest greatest ICE examples are not quite as efficient as we would like them to be, etc. etc.

The question coming to mind is: what does my recent calculation (just for sh... and giggles) add to this discussion? Has it not already been said before? Am I just wanting to shine light on the other side of the argument just because there is too much being said on this side?

For context, I am a Honda fan before I am a land rover fan (can you tell by my handle?) but Honda does not make a decent 4x4 (neither does land rover these days some argue but hey). In any case, my personal situation was changing once again last month so I was looking into a solution (details are a whole story in and of itself so I won't go into it here).

Being a Honda fan, there is just one EV I fancy and that is the Honda-e. It has a small range but it's a fun little runabout. Suffice it to say it has some limits and that has also brought to light the many challenges that come with charging. It was a nice trip down the technology and (im)possibilities and I can only come to the conclusion once again: it's just not for me.

So looking at that just for fun post, I can think of many a funny comeback but what does it matter :)

Cheers,
-P

I'm pretty sure most EV's are run as the 2nd/3rd/4th car in Australia. ie: everyone has a proper car for when its required. I've neither pro or anti EV, what I am is anti-stupidity. I can't stand the stupidity being screamed at us by the EV lobby. Or the utter stupidity of the goverment trying to mandate EV's (what do you think the new pollution standards are ? EV mandates in disguise).

You will probably find the little honda will work remarkably well for you ..... as a 2nd .. or 3rd .... or 4th car.... aka: city run-about.

There is no doubt, the electric motor is vastly superior as a way to generate power, the downfall is the battery. This is why trams and metro trains work so well. They have a "power wire" that wires them directly to the power grid.

My parents have bought an EV and reckon its great. What they won't mention is they also have a modern turbo diesel 4wd to tow the caravan and two petrol club permit vehicles. So the electric throw-away being flat or broken doesn't really matter :)

seeya
Shane L.

DoubleChevron

5th August 2025, 01:58 PM

DoubleChevron

5th August 2025, 02:12 PM

Sorry if this isn't what you are asking:

1. Vehicle is leased so is insured at the amount still owed. Annual cost is $1,577
2. Less than what is owed which is mostly because of the cheaper vehicles being imported from China (including by Kia where as mine was made in Korea). Leased for 5 years and my intention was always to keep it much longer than that.

It will be really interesting to see how this works out for you. I hope you keep it for the 5years and let us know how it goes. I have my fingers crossed that the batteries do last for 20years or whatever the latest fanciful claim is. Heading into the future it appears leasing EV's will become extraudinarly expensive, not simply because they are expensive to buy, but because leasing companies around the world are loosing millions due to eye watering depreciation. This isn't sustainable, so my best guess is they will want the full amount paid off over 5years with no balloon payment at the end (as they will be essentially worthless). Who is going to buy an EV with a 5 year old battery [bigwhistle] Not me, that is for certain!

seeya
Shane L.

RANDLOVER

5th August 2025, 03:29 PM

.........

The next issue is of course how will we even get EV's to this country if the globals shipping companies refuse to ship them as they keep sinking there ships when they torch off [bigsad]

BYD lease and own their own RO-RO ships.

austastar

5th August 2025, 04:09 PM

Hi, Roll On Roll Over?

Cheers https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250805/489362a392223dffa79bafc9f7b67830.jpg

cripesamighty

5th August 2025, 04:15 PM

Last figures I saw was they have lost at least 7 Chinese BYD dealerships burned down in the last 3 years, so I hope their ships last longer than their dealerships! The current joke is that BYD stands for 'Burn Your Dealership" or "Burn Your Driveway".

But in all seriousness, in the last 3 years, 3x car carriers have sunk due to EV fires, another towed into port on fire before it sank, with another one recently catching fire dockside. This is not just an issue when transporting EV's on large ships, but car ferries, etc as well. Worldwide there are many dozens of shipboard fires every year, so even when EV's are not the actual cause of a fire, if they do caught up in it, things can go bad fairly quickly.

The current methods for suppression of shipboard EV fires are totally inadequate, though they are catching up. One of the promising techniques currently being trialed uses chilled saturated saline solution stored onboard a vessel ready to be used as required. I'm sure the Insurance actuaries will be all over it! Good, bad or indifferent, as in interim solution EV's and hybrids are here to stay.

What isn't here to stay is my eScooter which was recently stolen! I would just go out and buy another one, but this one was modified to tow a trailer (made out of a defunct scooter of the same type) which had a double rear axle and a battery to extend the range. I got an EV mechanical workshop to wire them up in tandem and an engineering mate to put it all together out of some spare bits lying around. If anyone sees this anywhere let me know. This is a photo when it was still being put together. You can't mistake the tow hitch!

194268

RANDLOVER

5th August 2025, 05:16 PM

DoubleChevron

6th August 2025, 08:25 AM

Pity about your scooter. AFAIK, the merchant marine industry has very good safety regulations and testing due to the law of SOLAS (safety of life at sea), so I'm sure they will come up with something for EV's.

Ejection systems would be the only option .... the ability to eject entire levels of cars into the ocean at the push of a button. The idea anyone can contain a battery fire is fanciful to say the least. Even if you completely submurge the battery in the ocean, it will continue to burn as it creates its own fuel. Attempts to smother the fire will not work.

With electric cars, forget the "car" bit, its not a car fire, its a battery fire. It like comparing a fuel drum of petrol to sweating, aged stick of TNT with regards to risk.

seeya
Shane L.

Narangga

6th August 2025, 09:52 AM

It will be really interesting to see how this works out for you. I hope you keep it for the 5years and let us know how it goes. I have my fingers crossed that the batteries do last for 20years or whatever the latest fanciful claim is. Heading into the future it appears leasing EV's will become extraudinarly expensive, not simply because they are expensive to buy, but because leasing companies around the world are loosing millions due to eye watering depreciation. This isn't sustainable, so my best guess is they will want the full amount paid off over 5years with no balloon payment at the end (as they will be essentially worthless). Who is going to buy an EV with a 5 year old battery [bigwhistle] Not me, that is for certain!

seeya
Shane L.

The initial and still current intention is to keep it (having paid the balloon payment at the end of the lease) until it is not economically viable to do so.

DoubleChevron

6th August 2025, 10:15 AM

The initial and still current intention is to keep it (having paid the balloon payment at the end of the lease) until it is not economically viable to do so.

If you do mainly short trips, you may be able to work around the battery as it derates with age (as all batteries do). I don't really believe the reliability studies that show EV's are proving to be extremely unreliable compared to normal cars. You see, with recalls, warranty work etc... What do they consider unreliable? is it just dumb stuff like parking sensors not working, tire pressure senders.... or is the car actually breaking to the point where is can't be used.... That is what I consider unreliability. if the car can't function as a car.

seeya
Shane L.

Saitch

6th August 2025, 11:31 AM

DoubleChevron

6th August 2025, 01:57 PM

Recently, a mate's EV, albeit a golf cart, caused an expensive fire in his backyard shed. He lost tools, mower and sundry gardening equipment. His main distress though, was in the loss of three sets of custom, golf clubs.

He was also a lucky boy as, while he was hosing down a house wall which was endangered, an aerosol, paint can stored in the shed, blew out and went through the patio screen door and left a large dent in the beer fridge. Missed his head by a foot, or so.

When the firies arrived, one had his 'Report' at the ready, to complete. When he saw the EV was the cause of the fire, he more or less, just said 'Oh', jotted something down and closed his book. End of report!

Oh ... I hadn't thought of that one .... Is there anywhere they aren't using cheap chinese lithium batteries. There is videos around of caravans torching off too. Electric cars should be a lot safer as they all should have very sophisticated battery management systems. Why dont' they just use the lithium composions without cobalt so they don't burn in a self sustaining manner though ... [bighmmm]

RANDLOVER

6th August 2025, 02:01 PM

Ejection systems would be the only option .... the ability to eject entire levels of cars into the ocean at the push of a button. The idea anyone can contain a battery fire is fanciful to say the least. Even if you completely submurge the battery in the ocean, it will continue to burn as it creates its own fuel. Attempts to smother the fire will not work.

With electric cars, forget the "car" bit, its not a car fire, its a battery fire. It like comparing a fuel drum of petrol to sweating, aged stick of TNT with regards to risk.

seeya
Shane L.

Yes I thought that too, just jettison the burning car or row of cars it is in. I have seen fire brigades overseas lifting the smouldering ev into a container full of water, otherwise it takes several thousand litres of water to put out.

Captain_Rightfoot

6th August 2025, 02:19 PM

We have covered it pretty well. My big problem is them burning ... but mostly the life span. Have you ever owned any battery .... ever ... of any description that has been usable after the 5 -> 8 year mark? especially one deep cycled and rapidly charged... hmmm.....

The next issue is of course how will we even get EV's to this country if the globals shipping companies refuse to ship them as they keep sinking there ships when they torch off [bigsad]
See that's the thing. These are big batteries and they are just being "tickled". Our EV .. is LFP so it says in the app to charge to 100 every week. We don't always manage this but I try to do it once a month. For the most part when it gets down to 40 someone plugs it in and we charge it to 70. A few days later the same thing happens. So it doesn't even get one full cycle a week. It probably only does about 60% charging a week. At over two years old and with 25k on it, I reckon that it has done well less than 100 full cycles so far. Even if you said we did absolutely the worst treatment we could to the thing LFP in that use case is supposed to do 3500-4500 cycles. If you are real nice to them they can do 12000 to 19000 cycles.

Contrast this with my phone which is not two years old (It's not LFP but the exact chemistry is unknown) and it has almost 700 cycles. That's why small device batteries don't last long.

Contrast that with my EV.. I remain convinced that what will cause it's demise will be the same as an ICE car... some fender bender when it's 10-15 years old.

I just saw in the FB group that one of the members has a car which he uses for ride share. 2021. He's just about to pass 400,000k. He's tested the battery and it's still at 91% health (LFP). LFP car batteries are very durable.

If you want something to worry about - I'd be worried about the batteries in Hybrids. They lead a far far more tortuous life than that in a proper EV as they are smaller batteries in less efficient cars so they get smashed every drive.

DoubleChevron

6th August 2025, 04:08 PM

See that's the thing. These are big batteries and they are just being "tickled". Our EV .. is LFP so it says in the app to charge to 100 every week. We don't always manage this but I try to do it once a month. For the most part when it gets down to 40 someone plugs it in and we charge it to 70. A few days later the same thing happens. So it doesn't even get one full cycle a week. It probably only does about 60% charging a week. At over two years old and with 25k on it, I reckon that it has done well less than 100 full cycles so far. Even if you said we did absolutely the worst treatment we could to the thing LFP in that use case is supposed to do 3500-4500 cycles. If you are real nice to them they can do 12000 to 19000 cycles.

Contrast this with my phone which is not two years old (It's not LFP but the exact chemistry is unknown) and it has almost 700 cycles. That's why small device batteries don't last long.

Contrast that with my EV.. I remain convinced that what will cause it's demise will be the same as an ICE car... some fender bender when it's 10-15 years old.

I just saw in the FB group that one of the members has a car which he uses for ride share. 2021. He's just about to pass 400,000k. He's tested the battery and it's still at 91% health (LFP). LFP car batteries are very durable.

If you want something to worry about - I'd be worried about the batteries in Hybrids. They lead a far far more tortuous life than that in a proper EV as they are smaller batteries in less efficient cars so they get smashed every drive.

I wish this was the case. Even if a battery is never used, it just dies. There is no exact number of cycles they can do. Even un-used you will probably get a similar run from it. You average laptop battery would probably be lucky to be discharged once per year. They still die at 5'ish years of age.

"Cycles" only means somethimg for the time period the battery chemistry is viable.

I was watching questionable garage a year or two back. He wanted to harvest the batteries from a lowish milage crashed tesla.

https://youtu.be/NzjeuIOs_3o't=1610

Take a look. He has never gone ahead with the project. Tesla probably makes the most reliable, well made and designed batteries. But have a look at the battery modules as he lifts them out. I don't think there is a single module there that isn't leaking. IMO this means none of the modules are safe for re-use...... Not one .... They would probably have been fine while in the tesla with its battery management systems, heating and cooling circuits, safety circuits etc.... but to re-use leaking cells ...... and put an aftermarket controller on them :o:o

there is a reason why re-sale is absolutely horrific on evs ...... everyone has owned lots of "things" that contain batteries in there life times. and the only absolute certainty is ... the battery will die at some point. Who is going to spend $20,000+++ on an essentially worthless car :(

The oldest car i have here is 75 years old. I don't give a seconds thought to its petrol tank (let alone its motor). It can sit un-used for 5 years, I throw a fresh battery in it ... some fresh fuel ... prime the carby and she's away again. It would be dumped at the local tip if I had to spend $20,000+ every 5 -> 10years just to have a functional vehicle just "because" another battery has crapped itself :) (well I'm sure another battery will have crapped itself. In its case there is a big difference between a $100 battery and a $20,000+ battery).

seeya
Shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

6th August 2025, 04:58 PM

I wish this was the case. Even if a battery is never used, it just dies. There is no exact number of cycles they can do. Even un-used you will probably get a similar run from it. You average laptop battery would probably be lucky to be discharged once per year. They still die at 5'ish years of age.

"Cycles" only means somethimg for the time period the battery chemistry is viable.

I was watching questionable garage a year or two back. He wanted to harvest the batteries from a lowish milage crashed tesla.

https://youtu.be/NzjeuIOs_3o't=1610

Take a look. He has never gone ahead with the project. Tesla probably makes the most reliable, well made and designed batteries. But have a look at the battery modules as he lifts them out. I don't think there is a single module there that isn't leaking. IMO this means none of the modules are safe for re-use...... Not one .... They would probably have been fine while in the tesla with its battery management systems, heating and cooling circuits, safety circuits etc.... but to re-use leaking cells ...... and put an aftermarket controller on them :o:o

there is a reason why re-sale is absolutely horrific on evs ...... everyone has owned lots of "things" that contain batteries in there life times. and the only absolute certainty is ... the battery will die at some point. Who is going to spend $20,000+++ on an essentially worthless car :(

The oldest car i have here is 75 years old. I don't give a seconds thought to its petrol tank (let alone its motor). It can sit un-used for 5 years, I throw a fresh battery in it ... some fresh fuel ... prime the carby and she's away again. It would be dumped at the local tip if I had to spend $20,000+ every 5 -> 10years just to have a functional vehicle just "because" another battery has crapped itself :) (well I'm sure another battery will have crapped itself. In its case there is a big difference between a $100 battery and a $20,000+ battery).

seeya
Shane L.
I agree. Time gets batteries regardless of use. The best estimate of time for an LFP battery is 15-20 years. I have no expectations that this car will last longer than 15-20 years. It's just not how things work now. It's important to realise that the early tesla packs are far far less durable than LFP which is the most common battery in EV's in the Australian market by far.

I'm not sure what relevance a 75 year old car is. I have a 56 year old car and just rebuilt the engine and gearbox. The club people tell me they need an engine rebuild every 20-30 even if they aren't used anyway as they corrode. I've owned it for 25 years and only done about 15k on it. So that doesn't seem much better than the EV..

None the less, my defender has just turned 20. I can assure you that in the last ten years I've spent 20k on maintenance. It's actually more than that but I don't want to add it up. :( But defenders are not normal. I can justify repairing it because it still has value as a vehicle. They are an outlier. I'm guessing there will be very very few D3/D4/new Defenders on the road past 20 because they will be written off before that due to repair costs. When a vehicles economic value declines it repairable value becomes far less, and the cost of repairs has increased significantly recently.

So given the EV has far far lower maintenance requirements.... I reckon if I had to put a battery in it every 10-15 I'll still be ahead! But I don't think I'll have to.. and even if I do the aftermarket will very likely deliver me a battery for far far less than it's current cost. In the meantime I'll have virtually no fuel and little to no repair costs.

Narangga

6th August 2025, 05:11 PM

If you do mainly short trips, you may be able to work around the battery as it derates with age (as all batteries do). I don't really believe the reliability studies that show EV's are proving to be extremely unreliable compared to normal cars. You see, with recalls, warranty work etc... What do they consider unreliable? is it just dumb stuff like parking sensors not working, tire pressure senders.... or is the car actually breaking to the point where is can't be used.... That is what I consider unreliability. if the car can't function as a car.

seeya
Shane L.

Shortish trips - it is Darwin [biggrin]

I didn't record where the article was but it referenced that real life performance of an EV battery was actually better than the manufacturers were claiming as the manufacturer sat it on a test bench and went - charge - discharge - repeat. Real lif is charge use for a while and then recharge. Time will tell.

As I use the car as a car and charge it as required I have not recorded all details of my use and charging sessions etc. but after 2 years and almost 50K km the range and performance has not noticeably diminished.

DoubleChevron

6th August 2025, 07:57 PM

I agree. Time gets batteries regardless of use. The best estimate of time for an LFP battery is 15-20 years. I have no expectations that this car will last longer than 15-20 years. It's just not how things work now. It's important to realise that the early tesla packs are far far less durable than LFP which is the most common battery in EV's in the Australian market by far.

I'm not sure what relevance a 75 year old car is. I have a 56 year old car and just rebuilt the engine and gearbox. The club people tell me they need an engine rebuild every 20-30 even if they aren't used anyway as they corrode. I've owned it for 25 years and only done about 15k on it. So that doesn't seem much better than the EV..

None the less, my defender has just turned 20. I can assure you that in the last ten years I've spent 20k on maintenance. It's actually more than that but I don't want to add it up. :( But defenders are not normal. I can justify repairing it because it still has value as a vehicle. They are an outlier. I'm guessing there will be very very few D3/D4/new Defenders on the road past 20 because they will be written off before that due to repair costs. When a vehicles economic value declines it repairable value becomes far less, and the cost of repairs has increased significantly recently.

So given the EV has far far lower maintenance requirements.... I reckon if I had to put a battery in it every 10-15 I'll still be ahead! But I don't think I'll have to.. and even if I do the aftermarket will very likely deliver me a battery for far far less than it's current cost. In the meantime I'll have virtually no fuel and little to no repair costs.

15 -> 20year [biggrin][biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigrolf] Ok, if you insist. No a car engine will never corrode out, that is insanity. Just change its coolant regulary and it'll be fine. If your really concerned run a waterless coolant in it (expensive), they run hotter, but there is no boiling point and the stuff lasts forever and never corrodes anything.

I have my fingers crossed you are right about the 15->20years. sadly these batteries are already failing. But hey, lets hope you are right.

Here I have a 1950 Citroen Traction Avant, two 1963 citroen id19s, a ranger over (fully alloy motor), a citroen cx2500 GTi turbo ( 40years old ... the motor has never been touched), and the modern poogoes are over 15years old. Guess how much corrosion I have to deal with [bighmmm]

Please don't start the "Look over there, trees burn too" type responses to valid concerns about battery life and propensity to fire. saying things like "but, but, but ICE engine will corrode out too" is just nuts. There is Model Ts still running around with there original engine blocks and motors in them. they probably ran on bore water for 80years too.

seeya
shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

7th August 2025, 06:05 AM

15 -> 20year [biggrin][biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigrolf] Ok, if you insist. No a car engine will never corrode out, that is insanity. Just change its coolant regulary and it'll be fine. If your really concerned run a waterless coolant in it (expensive), they run hotter, but there is no boiling point and the stuff lasts forever and never corrodes anything.

I have my fingers crossed you are right about the 15->20years. sadly these batteries are already failing. But hey, lets hope you are right.

Here I have a 1950 Citroen Traction Avant, two 1963 citroen id19s, a ranger over (fully alloy motor), a citroen cx2500 GTi turbo ( 40years old ... the motor has never been touched), and the modern poogoes are over 15years old. Guess how much corrosion I have to deal with [bighmmm]

Please don't start the "Look over there, trees burn too" type responses to valid concerns about battery life and propensity to fire. saying things like "but, but, but ICE engine will corrode out too" is just nuts. There is Model Ts still running around with there original engine blocks and motors in them. they probably ran on bore water for 80years too.

seeya
shane L.
Look.. there is the chance to surprise us on the upside or the downside. We are literally watching technology advance. The batteries in my car were only first used in like 2021 or something. Maybe they will all be dead at ten, but also maybe they will be a perfectly good battery stuck in an old decrepit car at 20

It's also going to be hard going forward because technology is changing so rapidly. But I guess it's just like any car, some engines are bombproof and some are hand grenades.

As to fire, I don't worry charging my car downstairs. But I won't even connect the battery up to my classic without having a line of sight to a fire extinguisher and an open exit to push it out of if required.

Saitch

7th August 2025, 07:15 AM

DoubleChevron

7th August 2025, 07:33 AM

There are 'Pros' and 'Cons' here, ad infinitum. I'm not swayed one way, or t'other, as the EV format isn't applicable to my lifestyle. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who has one.

I can see some advantages. My wife's past employer had a swag of EVs, with the majority of drivers being female. As they were required to wear work clobber, not having to pump a liquid fuel, especially Diesel, was a bonus. They also had topping up facilities at HQ. Not nearly enough for the number of cars, but we are talking Government here.[biggrin]

My main worry, with regard to the discussion on how battery technology is advancing so quickly, would be that, in the immediate future, a 'New Generation' battery system would not be compatible with an existing vehicle, without major modifications, to what appears to be deemed by Asian manufacturers, as a disposable item. (We know how car companies work) [tonguewink]

EV's will work very well while barely anyone uses them. The cars themselves are great, there downfall is the battery and charging infrastructure. While very few people use them, they are fine. Workplaces I'm sure will outlaw the charing of them ( ok while maybe two or three people charge them). Do you think the employer is going to pay for 25 ... 100 cars to charge at there workplace (forgetting the infrastructure costs and needs).

Its all just soon luny and insane as soon as you talk any sort of mass roll out. The hurdles are pretty much insurountable. what is the country everyone always reference when they talk EV's ... um, Norway? Yeah, government mandates and freebies is forcing the sale of a lot of EV's. what they don't mention is this new cuba is over 80% ICE vehicles on the roads, this is unlikely to change.

It is very comical though. I had to laugh when I heard the latest stupidity. Wow ... 5minute charging [bigrolf] Now even someone with the tiniest little brain .... Surely they will think. OK, to charge an average EV in 5minutes. You are going to want about a 1 million watt charger. How many locations in Australia do you think would have a 1million watt grid connection. How expensive do you think a 1 million watt grid connection will be. Now lets not think like a 5 year old, lets think with the common sense of a 12 year old. An average fuel station has 18 pumps? So to charge 18 cars at 1MW each, you would need an 18,000,000 watt grid connection (that is without losses, probably add 30% to that). Are we going to be sensible yet [bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

PhilipA

7th August 2025, 07:49 AM

DoubleChevron

7th August 2025, 08:51 AM

I wouldn't worry about many people buying them in the future. Sales of EVs reduced to 6.3% of total vehicle sales in July.
Note no breathless press releases so far from the EV lobby. Of course they may claim success by adding in hybrid sales.
Regards PhilipA

They often include the hybrids in the figures whenever they can to inflate them. The issue they have, is the majority of people that want EV's ... have now purchased one (probably as a 2nd/3rd car, so the net effect is more cars on the road, not less pollution, which is apparently the aim). I know of someone that like there chinese EV so much, they purchased a 2nd one for there wife. As a car, if you can charge at home and don't do huge milages, they could be great.

I think there is something wrong with my brain. I'm still concerned about my ICE cars corroding there engines away when they reach 15years old [bigrolf][bigrolf] Oh gees that is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. I promise I will be good and not mention the fact that electric cars .... Do you know what they have...... Would you believe a cooling system.... just like an ICE vehicle. Only it runs through a high voltage battery (don't worry, mixing high voltage and coolant/water is a lot safer than running it through a lump of cast iron). Oh man I enjoy these types of thread, so much more funny than the humor forum/threads [bigrolf]

seeya
Shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

7th August 2025, 11:13 AM

They often include the hybrids in the figures whenever they can to inflate them. The issue they have, is the majority of people that want EV's ... have now purchased one (probably as a 2nd/3rd car, so the net effect is more cars on the road, not less pollution, which is apparently the aim). I know of someone that like there chinese EV so much, they purchased a 2nd one for there wife. As a car, if you can charge at home and don't do huge milages, they could be great.

I think there is something wrong with my brain. I'm still concerned about my ICE cars corroding there engines away when they reach 15years old [bigrolf][bigrolf] Oh gees that is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. I promise I will be good and not mention the fact that electric cars .... Do you know what they have...... Would you believe a cooling system.... just like an ICE vehicle. Only it runs through a high voltage battery (don't worry, mixing high voltage and coolant/water is a lot safer than running it through a lump of cast iron). Oh man I enjoy these types of thread, so much more funny than the humor forum/threads [bigrolf]

seeya
Shane L.
FYI the coolant in EV's runs as much much lower temperatures to ICE cars. The systems are not pressurized because they never get that hot. Typically barely above room temperature.

So they don't seem to be at all hard on coolant. Tesla state the following.

Battery coolant: Your Battery coolant does not need to be replaced for the life of your vehicle under most circumstances.

Just for your info, this is the Tesla service schedule. Man that's a lot less servicing than any ice car I've ever owned.

Service IntervalsTesla recommends the following maintenance items and intervals, as applicable to your vehicle, to ensure continued reliability and efficiency of your Model Y.
For additional information on vehicle alerts, see Troubleshooting Alerts (https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-9A3F0F72-71F4-433D-B68B-0A472A9359DF.html).

Brake fluid health check every 4 years (replace if necessary)*.
Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
HEPA filter (x2) and carbon filter (x2) replacement every 3 years.
Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter.
Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first.

PhilipA

7th August 2025, 12:05 PM

You forgot buy new(special expensive) tyres every 20-30KK.
Pay enormous insurance bill every 12 months.
Suffer enormous depreciation when vehicle sold.
Pay 50cents per Kw at charging station if you are not one of the X%( probably less than 3-5) who can charge at home during the day from solar panels.

It's at least USD52cents for a fast charge in the USA and over UKP50 pence in the UK. How long before that expensive in Australia? Source video of person who has a charge Trailer in USA.(towed by a diesel Ute)
Regards PhilipA

DoubleChevron

7th August 2025, 01:04 PM

FYI the coolant in EV's runs as much much lower temperatures to ICE cars. The systems are not pressurized because they never get that hot. Typically barely above room temperature.

So they don't seem to be at all hard on coolant. Tesla state the following.

Just for your info, this is the Tesla service schedule. Man that's a lot less servicing than any ice car I've ever owned.

Oh, I understand that. Sadly they are proving to be very unreliable. EV's are an extremely complex vehicle. In time they may become more reliable ... but not while manufacturers are loosing money on them hand over fist. Just look at the reliability rating of EV's compared to ICE vehicles. They are differently complex, not less complex due to the electric motor (the battery with its chemical soup, hundred of welded connections, cooling systems, heating systems, exotic monitoring systems etc) is far more complex and dangerous than any internal combustion engine ever has been.

so not less complex, just differently so.

The bit that gets me with electric cars .... is they are so fast, why do they so often hold me up in traffic. I'm convinced all the drivers, drive everywhere staring at the charge monitor, being slowly driven insane by the fear and anxiety of running out of charge.

I'm not surprised by the limited service intervals on electric cars ... They expect them to last for about 8years and be thrown away. They are disposable and unrepairable much like a chinese fridge is these days.

The brakes is an interesting one. Apparently they are having issues in areas where they salt the road, you see with regen it is entirely possible to drive the car without using the brakes. So they seize up and need replacing.

Its all fun isn't it. Everything has its positives and negatives, and this is no different

seeya
Shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

10th August 2025, 03:36 PM

Oh, I understand that. Sadly they are proving to be very unreliable. EV's are an extremely complex vehicle. In time they may become more reliable ... but not while manufacturers are loosing money on them hand over fist. Just look at the reliability rating of EV's compared to ICE vehicles. They are differently complex, not less complex due to the electric motor (the battery with its chemical soup, hundred of welded connections, cooling systems, heating systems, exotic monitoring systems etc) is far more complex and dangerous than any internal combustion engine ever has been.

so not less complex, just differently so.

The bit that gets me with electric cars .... is they are so fast, why do they so often hold me up in traffic. I'm convinced all the drivers, drive everywhere staring at the charge monitor, being slowly driven insane by the fear and anxiety of running out of charge.

I'm not surprised by the limited service intervals on electric cars ... They expect them to last for about 8years and be thrown away. They are disposable and unrepairable much like a chinese fridge is these days.

The brakes is an interesting one. Apparently they are having issues in areas where they salt the road, you see with regen it is entirely possible to drive the car without using the brakes. So they seize up and need replacing.

Its all fun isn't it. Everything has its positives and negatives, and this is no different

seeya
Shane L.
Electric cars have big positives and negatives. :D Sorry couldn't help that.

So I'm not so sure about the reliability thing. The cars we get here.. seem to be quite good. I'm on a whole heap of owners groups for all sorts of cars. I really can't remember ever seeing "my car had XXXX break and failed to proceed" in the tesla groups. About the only thing I'm aware of that I would consider a proper fault is apparently the front control arm bushes are failing earlier than ideal. Tesla are replacing them free.. Mass production stuff things can slip through. Compared to what I see of Landrovers.. night and day!

So I just finished my weekend away at Tenterfield. Car did 300k or so down there (plus a few diversions). Charged at the accom. Drove home for a total of 610k for the weekend. and it's back home with 35%. I'm sorry.. it was entirely pleasant for that application. Much less tiring than my old defender (I know that's not really fair).

As to the driving slowly thing ... both the car and the phone app are excellent at calculating range. I was confident that I had margins and I did. If I was driving slower than everyone else.. It's because I'm the only person in queensland that actually drives at the posted roadworks speed limit it would appear. Was very testing .. lots of long roadworks on the Cunningham hwy near the range. Sure you can do 80 in the 40 zone. Go for it!

JDNSW

11th August 2025, 06:40 AM

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 08:49 AM

Certainly EVs are very complex - but so are all modern cars! And many, if not most, of the problems associated with running them are the same - failure of what should be parts you thought were solved half a century ago and have nothing to do with complexity - window mechanisms, suspension parts, tyres and wheels that need replacing when you hit a rock on the road, door locks that wear out too rapidly, parts that are unavailable or cost a fortune (especially accident repair parts like light assemblies and panels), upholstery and plastic trim that disintegrates in Australian sunshine, door seals that don't etc etc.

As examples, my son's car is driving round at the moment with the LHF window held up by tape while his mechanic searches for a winder mechanism (preferably one that costs less than $1,000) and his wife's car only has flat out or off heater/aircon fan speeds with new parts unavailable. Both are common, popular, models and fairly new (but out of warranty), different brands. And neither are EVs. But there are no reasons to suggest EVs will be any better, or any worse, although buying from new brands and rapidly changing models does make you worry whether the parts situation will be even worse in a few years.

But, again, probably no worse than it is for less common ICE models, such as Landrover! (Although it needs pointing out that most Series Landrover parts are pretty easy to find and cheap.)

Oh, I wasn't criticizing EV's for being unreliable. I simply simply looked at the warranty and service charges (google insurance company, lease company, warranty company stats .... scroll past any with "ev", "green" or something obviously loony and left leaning and have a look at the stats. ie: not nutters that love them ... or nutters that hate them... simple industry stats. You will find land rover right down the bottom.... probably even trailing some of the electric cars [bigrolf]

As dumb as it sounds, I reckon I could more easily source parts for my wifes poogoe (very rare, now 14 year old little sports car) and my old ****box range rover, much more easily than any 5 year old, just out of warranty car. You see the poogoe, there is a specialist wrecker in melbourne that appears to have a yard full of them. I guess he has purchased every crashed one that has gone through the auctions over the last 10years. The ****box range rover .... we have specialist type suppliers that actually warehouse the commonly required stuff in australia. (I've often found buying parts from the UK, much faster than ordering them in through manufacturers too).

seeya
Shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

11th August 2025, 08:52 AM

Certainly EVs are very complex - but so are all modern cars! And many, if not most, of the problems associated with running them are the same - failure of what should be parts you thought were solved half a century ago and have nothing to do with complexity - window mechanisms, suspension parts, tyres and wheels that need replacing when you hit a rock on the road, door locks that wear out too rapidly, parts that are unavailable or cost a fortune (especially accident repair parts like light assemblies and panels), upholstery and plastic trim that disintegrates in Australian sunshine, door seals that don't etc etc.

As examples, my son's car is driving round at the moment with the LHF window held up by tape while his mechanic searches for a winder mechanism (preferably one that costs less than $1,000) and his wife's car only has flat out or off heater/aircon fan speeds with new parts unavailable. Both are common, popular, models and fairly new (but out of warranty), different brands. And neither are EVs. But there are no reasons to suggest EVs will be any better, or any worse, although buying from new brands and rapidly changing models does make you worry whether the parts situation will be even worse in a few years.

But, again, probably no worse than it is for less common ICE models, such as Landrover! (Although it needs pointing out that most Series Landrover parts are pretty easy to find and cheap.)
If i wanted to find something to be concerned about with EV's is that we have a wave of new manufacturers. Buying a car is a commitment to the manufacturer that they will continue to supply parts. Ideally not just for the warranty, or for the "reasonable" time dictated by consumer law. People have an expectation that they will be able to run their car for a reasonable time frame with support and be able to call "enough" at a time of their choosing. Not because the car needs to be written off due to the unavailability of some widget.

The cost to the manufacturers must be immense to hold parts for older models. On top of expected parts - if there is a design issue there might be an ongoing requirement for one part across the fleet requiring remanufacture.

Early indications with BYD is they are having growing pains. I know several people who have BYD's and are happy with them. However the ones that have needed parts have reported long delays. Whether this turns out to be just growing pains, or goes onto become an ongoing thing is entirely unclear.

Of course... as you point out this is also a problem for legacy manufacturers.

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 08:56 AM

If i wanted to find something to be concerned about with EV's is that we have a wave of new manufacturers. Buying a car is a commitment to the manufacturer that they will continue to supply parts. Ideally not just for the warranty, or for the "reasonable" time dictated by consumer law. People have an expectation that they will be able to run their car for a reasonable time frame with support and be able to call "enough" at a time of their choosing. Not because the car needs to be written off due to the unavailability of some widget.

The cost to the manufacturers must be immense to hold parts for older models. On top of expected parts - if there is a design issue there might be an ongoing requirement for one part across the fleet requiring remanufacture.

Early indications with BYD is they are having growing pains. I know several people who have BYD's and are happy with them. However the ones that have needed parts have reported long delays. Whether this turns out to be just growing pains, or goes onto become an ongoing thing is entirely unclear.

Of course... as you point out this is also a problem for legacy manufacturers.

I wouldn't be worried about EV's. They simply won't be repaired. No mechanic wants to touch them, no insurance company wants to touch them, no smash repair wants to touch them. As soon as the battery degrades slightly, or there is any issue that can't easily be resolved (even changing a flat tire on a tesla for example is no small thing)..... they will all be just chucked to landfill and buried (so they can't torch off and burn the wreckers/holding yards out).

seeya
Shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

11th August 2025, 09:54 AM

I wouldn't be worried about EV's. They simply won't be repaired. No mechanic wants to touch them, no insurance company wants to touch them, no smash repair wants to touch them. As soon as the battery degrades slightly, or there is any issue that can't easily be resolved (even changing a flat tire on a tesla for example is no small thing)..... they will all be just chucked to landfill and buried (so they can't torch off and burn the wreckers/holding yards out).

seeya
Shane L.
I think that's probably an overly negative take on it.. but that's this thread delivering. :D

Captain_Rightfoot

11th August 2025, 10:16 AM

Tesla - parts seem to be available and reasonably cheap.

https://youtu.be/LRyGz2A5Xac'si=tzMOJqGVd65wwVWX

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 10:26 AM

I think that's probably an overly negative take on it.. but that's this thread delivering. :D

It has to be reality. We can't afford to have them sitting around in wrecking yards or holding yards waiting to be repaired. They are torching off to often. especially with the mandated separation required.

Electric Vehicle Safety | ACT Emergency Services Agency (https://esa.act.gov.au/be-emergency-ready/electric-vehicle-safety)

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remember, we are talking batteries not cars. We cant' afford to act in a "she'll be right mate" manner around these things. I'm pretty sure mechanics and body shops will not touch them, imagine the insurance you will need as a mechanic or smash repair if a car torches off and burns down a house after you have worked on it.

Captain_Rightfoot

11th August 2025, 02:45 PM

It has to be reality. We can't afford to have them sitting around in wrecking yards or holding yards waiting to be repaired. They are torching off to often. especially with the mandated separation required.

Electric Vehicle Safety | ACT Emergency Services Agency (https://esa.act.gov.au/be-emergency-ready/electric-vehicle-safety)

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remember, we are talking batteries not cars. We cant' afford to act in a "she'll be right mate" manner around these things. I'm pretty sure mechanics and body shops will not touch them, imagine the insurance you will need as a mechanic or smash repair if a car torches off and burns down a house after you have worked on it.

Statistically ICE cars catch fire much much more often. Your workshop would be far far safer filled with EV's than ICE. Sorry.

People who look at this stuff estimate they are between 20 and 80 times less likely to catch fire.

I don't worry about charging my EV but I do worry about my petrol and diesel cars catching fire. I think they are up to 8 in Australia now, which is probably only a weeks worth of Land rover fires.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/do-electric-cars-actually-present-a-greater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-ev-fire-myths-busted/

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 03:44 PM

Statistically ICE cars catch fire much much more often. Your workshop would be far far safer filled with EV's than ICE. Sorry.

People who look at this stuff estimate they are between 20 and 80 times less likely to catch fire.

I don't worry about charging my EV but I do worry about my petrol and diesel cars catching fire. I think they are up to 8 in Australia now, which is probably only a weeks worth of Land rover fires.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/do-electric-cars-actually-present-a-greater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-ev-fire-myths-busted/

Yeah, I don't believe any of those stats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIDZT55rwh4

Look into it a little further. Its not just the ev spontaniously combusting that is the issue, any fire the torches the EV off, is also a huge issue. Its probably safer to have dirty big LPG bottles on your house than an EV in its garage if your house catches fire

If my ICE vehicles catch fire, I can control it with a garden hose. Its highly unusual for a cold, unused petrol/diesel/lpg vehicle to burst into flames. Generaly they do it while very hot (or being driven). The large majority of them in my area are idiots torching off stolen cars (lets hope they never find out what a spectacular fire it'll be if they start stealing and torching EV's ..... ).

An EV must have a 15 meter barrier around it if its been involved in any sort of accident. Can you see the issue yet? What towy/crashy has a carpark with a 15meter exclusion zoen around every car ..... I have seen pictures of farms located near capital cities iwth paddocks of seperated electric cars stored in them (here, in australia).

seeya
Shane L.

RANDLOVER

11th August 2025, 03:50 PM

I doubt wrecked cars moulder away in scrap yards with undamaged batteries, the batteries are still valuable and can be used to repair other ev's or houses to store solar energy.

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 04:03 PM

I doubt wrecked cars moulder away in scrap yards with undamaged batteries, the batteries are still valuable and can be used to repair other ev's or houses to store solar energy.

No they can't. They won't mouler in a scrap yard due to fire risk (they must have a 15 meter exlcusion zone around them).

So you think people are going to remove a big heavy battery from an EV, remove its cooling systems, heating systems, exotic battery management systems, and place those fire prone, aged, possibly damaged batteries on there house ..... where the family sleeps.

No, they can't be recycled. Well, in theory they can. But the recycling plants burn down like clockwork. Even the latest, newest big whizz bang recyling plants are burning (infact there is one in america they has burnt several times in the last few years).

These aren't old AAA duracel batteries we are talking about, they are leaking, aged, dangerous cobalt based lithium batteries that can suffer "thermal run-away" at any point.

Lets say by some miracle they managed to recycle the batteries safely in Europe or America, and actually fully process the batteries (not just create stock piles of black dust). How do we get the big dangerous car batteries too this location? There has already been 3 cargo ship sunk in the last few years moving brand new batteries in brand new cars. How many will sink if we start shipping damaged, aged batteries?

Like I said, these environmental disasters will just get buried for everyones safety.

seeya
Shane L.

PhilipA

11th August 2025, 04:09 PM

My recent reading on the EV industry in China is that BYD is leading a race to the bottom. Now BYD may survive but many of the smaller, newer brands will not. How good is the 7 year warranty if the company has disappeared?
There appears to be a significant worry in China that BYD even is pressuring suppliers so much that quality will suffer.
The Chinese government is currently investigating the issue of new EVs (at grass) reported as sold but just stored in gigantic warehouses and fields. They qualify for a subsidy when sold.
Knowing the corruption in China this may come to nothing , but even BYD is implicated.
The GWM CEO recently said that the industry at present is unsustainable. Ironically GWM is probably best placed to weather an EV slowdown.
At least the Australian advertising and marketing industry seems to be making money .
Regards PhilipA

RANDLOVER

11th August 2025, 05:01 PM

No they can't. They won't mouler in a scrap yard due to fire risk (they must have a 15 meter exlcusion zone around them).

So you think people are going to remove a big heavy battery from an EV, remove its cooling systems, heating systems, exotic battery management systems, and place those fire prone, aged, possibly damaged batteries on there house ..... where the family sleeps.

No, they can't be recycled. Well, in theory they can. But the recycling plants burn down like clockwork. Even the latest, newest big whizz bang recyling plants are burning (infact there is one in america they has burnt several times in the last few years).

These aren't old AAA duracel batteries we are talking about, they are leaking, aged, dangerous cobalt based lithium batteries that can suffer "thermal run-away" at any point.

Lets say by some miracle they managed to recycle the batteries safely in Europe or America, and actually fully process the batteries (not just create stock piles of black dust). How do we get the big dangerous car batteries too this location? There has already been 3 cargo ship sunk in the last few years moving brand new batteries in brand new cars. How many will sink if we start shipping damaged, aged batteries?

Like I said, these environmental disasters will just get buried for everyones safety.

seeya
Shane L.

Removing an ev battery is not rocket surgery, organisations I worked for had diesel generators removed from their cooling, exhaust, fuel and power systems and sold. One we had removed from a leased building and trailer mounted, as like I said still valuable. For used ev batteries see, How our services help businesses and the environment
? Second Life Battery Sales (https://slbatteries.com.au/pages/collection-of-used-lithium-batteries-for-businesses) no doubt there are others.

Not to mention ICE cars that have their big heavy engines removed from their complex systems everyday.

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 06:37 PM

Removing an ev battery is not rocket surgery, organisations I worked for had diesel generators removed from their cooling, exhaust, fuel and power systems and sold. One we had removed from a leased building and trailer mounted, as like I said still valuable. For used ev batteries see, How our services help businesses and the environment
? Second Life Battery Sales (https://slbatteries.com.au/pages/collection-of-used-lithium-batteries-for-businesses) no doubt there are others.

Not to mention ICE cars that have their big heavy engines removed from their complex systems everyday.

Seriously, don't even dream it. The manufacturers making brand new house batteries can't even manage it without massive, constant recalls due to fire risk. Go have a look at the Tesla youtube video I posted last week, just look at how leaky and damaged every battery unit was. Nuts, its just nuts. Now if you talking the older non lithium based batteries.... maybe. But no, certainly not with cobalt based chemistries.

I have no doubt, the cost of disposing these batteries is going to be so frighteningly expensive, they will force unique identifiers onto them to prevent dumping. You can take a lead acid battery anywhere and get money for it. Have you ever seen anyone advertsing "wanted to buy" lithium batteries. The batteries link you posted is a joke. as soon as I see catch phrases like "circular economy".

I know someone that contacted these mobs in australia trying to get rid of a fictional nissan leaf battery. This is the safe type of chemistry battery. They couldn't give him a price, but required high end hazardous waste transport to them ... and "maybe" they "might" be able to take it.

All this battery wishy washy recyling caper is smoke and mirrors if you even look into the slightest bit sadly.

seeya
Shane L.

TonyC

11th August 2025, 07:39 PM

I wouldn't be worried about EV's. They simply won't be repaired. No mechanic wants to touch them, no insurance company wants to touch them, no smash repair wants to touch them. As soon as the battery degrades slightly, or there is any issue that can't easily be resolved (even changing a flat tire on a tesla for example is no small thing)..... they will all be just chucked to landfill and buried (so they can't torch off and burn the wreckers/holding yards out).

seeya
Shane L.

What's difficult about changing a tyre on a Tesla? Other than they don't have a spare!

I've helped a mate rotate the tyres on a Model Y, nothing difficult.

Tony

DoubleChevron

11th August 2025, 08:02 PM

What's difficult about changing a tyre on a Tesla? Other than they don't have a spare!

I've helped a mate rotate the tyres on a Model Y, nothing difficult.

Tony

I saw a news article on it a while back. You get free "rescue" with telsa services. They flat tray your car to a dealer and fit a loaner spare wheel. The problem was the car was stuck at the top of a parking tower, and they couldn't get a tow truck to it [bigrolf]

No spare and no jack in a country like australia has to be the dumbest crap I've ever heard of, especially in these stupid modern cars with ludicrously giant sized clown wheels with rubber band tires. You don't so much get a flat as destroy the wheel and tire when you hit a pothole. without a full sized proper spare, you really are in trouble.

I guess its less of an issue in an electric throw-away as they should never be far from a city center where it can be charged easily :) With other proper... "real" cars though, its just insane :soapbox:

seeya
Shane L.

TonyC

11th August 2025, 08:19 PM

I saw a news article on it a while back. You get free "rescue" with telsa services. They flat tray your car to a dealer and fit a loaner spare wheel. The problem was the car was stuck at the top of a parking tower, and they couldn't get a tow truck to it [bigrolf]

No spare and no jack in a country like australia has to be the dumbest crap I've ever heard of, especially in these stupid modern cars with ludicrously giant sized clown wheels with rubber band tires. You don't so much get a flat as destroy the wheel and tire when you hit a pothole. without a full sized proper spare, you really are in trouble.

I guess its less of an issue in an electric throw-away as they should never be far from a city center where it can be charged easily :) With other proper... "real" cars though, its just insane :soapbox:

seeya
Shane L.

So nothing to to with Tesla or EVs then, plenty of cars don't have a spare these days.

Our Subaru has done 330,000 km in 16 years, and never needed the spare, there have been times I'd have been nervous without it, but most of the time I'd be happy with pressure monitoring and a plug kit.

The Landy not so much.

Tony

Saitch

12th August 2025, 06:24 AM

So nothing to to with Tesla or EVs then, plenty of cars don't have a spare these days.

Our Subaru has done 330,000 km in 16 years, and never needed the spare, there have been times I'd have been nervous without it, but most of the time I'd be happy with pressure monitoring and a plug kit.

The Landy not so much.

Tony

My younger sister lives in regional Qld and drives a Subie, as it was the only vehicle that had a full size spare.

Run flats, mini-spares and no spares are for 'Slickers'.

DoubleChevron

12th August 2025, 08:10 AM

So nothing to to with Tesla or EVs then, plenty of cars don't have a spare these days.

Tony

Yes, but an electric throw-away is really less of an issue, as lets be honest, your not going to find one very far from the nearest starbucks .....

The lack of spare is just nuts, my wifes poogoe I managed to squeeze a 16" wheel into the recess in the boot (at least it had a spot for a spare, even though it didn't come with a spare). The issue is of course, it won't clear the enormous front brakes. so if I get a flat, the "spare" needs to go on the back, and the inflated tire moved to the front.... Just nuts. A spare is something that should be a part of every cars design brief.

seeya
Shane L.

PhilipA

12th August 2025, 08:12 AM

One of the qualifications I used in buying a car to relace my D2 was that it had a full size spare. I really hankered after a Mercedes GL 350 but the later ones do not have a spare at all. Later Touregs have a ridiculous system of a deflated collapsable spare and a compressor plus you have to take off a trim panel to jack it. I can recall on another site reading that an X6 driver with the monstrous v8 version wanted to travel to Sydney from Perth "via backroads" until I pointed out that there were no run flats in Australia to fit his car.
I ended up with an Everest which I am pleased with as the nearest thing to a successor to a D2. The spare is still a PITA under the bumper bar. One of the conditions also had to be a length of less than 4.8 metres as my garage is only that long so please no Prado suggestions as they are too long.
If you want to tow a van around OZ there are few options, although I agree the spare is a security blanket as I have never had a complete tyre failure in the bush although I have had several bloody builder's nails in the city which I was able to plug.
The worst situation is riding a motorcycle over the Harbour Bridge where I picked up nail after nail which were dropped by tradies and brushed into the centre of the lane by traffic.

Please no reliability BS. The failure rate of EGR coolers looks to be on par with engine complete failures in RRS and Ford has issued a 10 year warranty on them. I have a letter confirming that. The 3.2L 5 is a great engine. Mine has been great after a warranty replacement by Ford of the adblue cooler and new glow plugs replaced by the seller. The transmission is the same design as the RRS 6 speed. And steel springs instead of crap air suspension , great for Europe but pretty hopeless in the OZ bush. At least one sprung a leak on every Range Rover Club trip I went on. So much so that the club had to buy a diagnostic tool to enable all the cars to continue the trip.
REgards PhilipA

DoubleChevron

12th August 2025, 08:20 AM

One of the qualifications I used in buying a car to relace my D2 was that it had a full size spare. I really hankered after a Mercedes GL 350 but the later ones do not have a spare at all. Later Touregs have a ridiculous system of a deflated collapsable spare and a compressor plus you have to take off a trim panel to jack it. I can recall on another site reading that an X6 driver with the monstrous v8 version wanted to travel to
REgards PhilipA

I put it down to "**** happens". I've had to go rescue two cars in the last year here with flats. Not punctures but the stupid modern alloy wheels with rubber band tires, they just can't handle poor roads. The wifes car cracked an alloy wheel (fortunately didnt' destroy the tire) the daughters little car bent the alloy wheel and destoryed the 2 week old tire. I hammered the alloy wheel back round with a sledge hammer and had another new tire fitted. In both cases, stupid little compressors and tire snot would not have worked (daugher was stuck on the side of the road in the dark ... luckily not remote, only 10minutes drive from me).

We might not have another flat for 10years .... or might have one today. Who knows, what I do know is there MUST be a spare there.

Being in a 4wd does not make you immune, I kept staking the bridgestone all terrains I had on the ****box here ... it was driving me crazy. They rode well though .... I ended up fitting a setup of BFG all terrains .... other than making it ride like a dump truck (man they must have side walls made of cast iron) ... but they sure have lasted well.

seeya
Shane L.

PhilipA

12th August 2025, 10:30 AM

Yes one of the blokes in my Probus club has a modern Merc. Hit a pothole and over $1000 for a new rim and tyre. he was not happy.
Regards PhilipA

RANDLOVER

12th August 2025, 11:14 AM

Yes, but an electric throw-away is really less of an issue, as lets be honest, your not going to find one very far from the nearest starbucks .....

The lack of spare is just nuts, my wifes poogoe I managed to squeeze a 16" wheel into the recess in the boot (at least it had a spot for a spare, even though it didn't come with a spare). The issue is of course, it won't clear the enormous front brakes. so if I get a flat, the "spare" needs to go on the back, and the inflated tire moved to the front.... Just nuts. A spare is something that should be a part of every cars design brief.

seeya
Shane L.

I once had to change an older lady's tyre late one night after work, it was a skinny space saver, later I thought I should have really moved a good tyre to the front and put the spare on the back, especially as it was a front wheel drive car.

Captain_Rightfoot

12th August 2025, 12:36 PM

No they can't. They won't mouler in a scrap yard due to fire risk (they must have a 15 meter exlcusion zone around them).

So you think people are going to remove a big heavy battery from an EV, remove its cooling systems, heating systems, exotic battery management systems, and place those fire prone, aged, possibly damaged batteries on there house ..... where the family sleeps.

No, they can't be recycled. Well, in theory they can. But the recycling plants burn down like clockwork. Even the latest, newest big whizz bang recyling plants are burning (infact there is one in america they has burnt several times in the last few years).

These aren't old AAA duracel batteries we are talking about, they are leaking, aged, dangerous cobalt based lithium batteries that can suffer "thermal run-away" at any point.

Lets say by some miracle they managed to recycle the batteries safely in Europe or America, and actually fully process the batteries (not just create stock piles of black dust). How do we get the big dangerous car batteries too this location? There has already been 3 cargo ship sunk in the last few years moving brand new batteries in brand new cars. How many will sink if we start shipping damaged, aged batteries?

Like I said, these environmental disasters will just get buried for everyones safety.

seeya
Shane L.
Look.. I know this is unlikely. But if you actually believe anything that I can offer, understand that the biggest selling EV's in Australia are LIFPO4. I think all the BYD's and all the RWD Teslas. The top 5 selling cars are majority LFP.

All Korean, Japanese and european stuff is cobalt still. AFAIK.

Yes they are Lithium batteries like the cobalt technologies, but they are very different in many ways. One of which is they are intrinsically less prone to catching fire. Some other handy traits are they don't really care too much about how they are charged, and they tend to last a very long time.

Cobalt batteries are an older tech. They were the default but are now increasingly just in the high performance long range models where their higher energy density is required. And phones.

The only cobalt in my car is in my phone and watch.

JDNSW

12th August 2025, 01:28 PM

Talking of tyres - last year my older son was travelling from Brisbane to Melbourne via Goondoowindi, in a near new car, I can't remember what type. Driving slowly through roadworks in souther Qld, he hit a fist size rock. One tyre gone. Drove 80km into Goondoowindi on a space saver spare (slowly). Next morning, surprise! The local tyre place had a tyre the right size. But they didn't have a wheel. Just as surprising, there was one in Toowoomba (maybe that says something about how often this sort of thing happens?), so they only spent two unplanned nights there. He did not say how much the wheel cost, but he was not happy.

PhilipA

12th August 2025, 02:52 PM

Captain_Rightfoot

13th August 2025, 07:20 AM

Just to add a bit to the battery debate,The BYD "blade" battery cannot be separated into component parts as tested by Munro in the USA.
They compleetly dismantled a BYD Shark to its component parts, except AFAIR they could not in practical terms dismantle the battery pack.
Regards PhilipA
The Tesla LFP batteries are made up of 6 modules, with a total of only 106 LFP cells which it would appear they can be broken down to the individual cells within them. Whether this will result in individual cells being replaced at a point in the future is entirely unclear. So far there haven't been any reports I've heard of these batteries failing, but I suppose still early days.

In the older tesla roadsters repairers are going down to bypassing failing individual 18650 cells of which there can be thousands in those packs. Tesla are building replacement battery packs, but slowly.

I expect that if it is a problem then there will be a market for replacement batteries and companies will step up due to the volumes and demand (if necessary). Just like there are aftermarket batteries for Nissan Leaf now.

https://youtu.be/k0UlLVl2JNE'si=HrRVa3dko4PhHBZu

Captain_Rightfoot

13th August 2025, 07:27 AM

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 08:50 AM

The Tesla LFP batteries are made up of 6 modules, with a total of only 106 LFP cells which it would appear they can be broken down to the individual cells within them. Whether this will result in individual cells being replaced at a point in the future is entirely unclear. So far there haven't been any reports I've heard of these batteries failing, but I suppose still early days.

In the older tesla roadsters repairers are going down to bypassing failing individual 18650 cells of which there can be thousands in those packs. Tesla are building replacement battery packs, but slowly.

I expect that if it is a problem then there will be a market for replacement batteries and companies will step up due to the volumes and demand (if necessary). Just like there are aftermarket batteries for Nissan Leaf now.

https://youtu.be/k0UlLVl2JNE'si=HrRVa3dko4PhHBZu

The problem is the cost of the batteries, and the safe disposal of the battery being replaced. A telsa battery a few years ago was over $20,000. It will not have gotten cheaper (the supply and demand bit). Are you going to spend $20k++ on a car that is essentially worthless and pretty much can be considered hazmat material needing to be disposed of [bighmmm]

The original tesla roadsters may well become collectable, so someone ... somewhere might replace the battery (jay leno maybe? ... then again, tesla will just give him a new battery :) ).

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 08:53 AM

Bit of reality on the actual state of battery fires in Aus. 8 in total out of a quarter of a million cars at this point 8 months ago. Leading causes of fires are crashes (like this one) and external causes like arson and house fires. Only one burnt on charge so far, and I don't believe it was a Tesla. So your car is far more likely to be the victim of a house fire than the cause of one.

As I've noted before.. in my classic car I believe fire is the leading cause of their demise over the years... and not due to crashes just while in operation. :(

https://youtu.be/GhVt1d6uLrI'si=hNxDSRAXVNb2sLZh

I don't quite understand why you keep mentioning ICE vehicle fires. That is no comparison. An ICE vehicle fire ... is just a fire. No most old car do not burn, they become worhtless and and recycled (actually recycled, not the lithium battery version of recycling). I can control one of my cars burning with a garden hose.

we are talking battery fires, not "car" fires. If you want to compare the electric car fires to something, it needs to be other battery fires, not car fires.

seeya
Shane L.

Captain_Rightfoot

13th August 2025, 11:41 AM

The problem is the cost of the batteries, and the safe disposal of the battery being replaced. A telsa battery a few years ago was over $20,000. It will not have gotten cheaper (the supply and demand bit). Are you going to spend $20k++ on a car that is essentially worthless and pretty much can be considered hazmat material needing to be disposed of [bighmmm]

The original tesla roadsters may well become collectable, so someone ... somewhere might replace the battery (jay leno maybe? ... then again, tesla will just give him a new battery :) ).
I agree with that. By the time a run of the mill Tesla is 15 years old or something like that, it's residual value might not support the fitting of a new battery, although that will somewhat depend of the cost of them by then. It's guesses as to how much that is.

If I may compare that to an ICE car, there are many many examples of 10-15 yo (sometimes not even that old) being written off because of an expensive component failure.

Hence my assertion that EV's will have quite a lot in common with any other car in relation to end of life. What is unknown is whether battery failure will even be a thing. Early indications on the LFP batteries are promising.

I do honestly believe that when there is a supply of EV batteries to recycle we will make it happen. At the moment there aren't really any to recycle so that would be a poor business decision.

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 12:40 PM

I agree with that. By the time a run of the mill Tesla is 15 years old or something like that, it's residual value might not support the fitting of a new battery, although that will somewhat depend of the cost of them by then. It's guesses as to how much that is.

If I may compare that to an ICE car, there are many many examples of 10-15 yo (sometimes not even that old) being written off because of an expensive component failure.

Hence my assertion that EV's will have quite a lot in common with any other car in relation to end of life. What is unknown is whether battery failure will even be a thing. Early indications on the LFP batteries are promising.

I do honestly believe that when there is a supply of EV batteries to recycle we will make it happen. At the moment there aren't really any to recycle so that would be a poor business decision.

Oh come on .... The majority of cars get parked up ... generally just worn out but still working. If I went around my back paddock right now and spent a weekend with a battery and a boat tank, most of the parts cars would start and drive. They rest of them is just so far gone, they are not economically viable.

The average car age in australia is 10years old. I don't see a lot of EVs reaching this age and still being a functional vehicle. That's ok you think? 'Cos maybe its close to the average age. Well average ... means average, so likely HALF the cars on the road are over 10years old.

Bottom line ... enforce electric throw-aways like a lot of the luny 1st world countries are attempting, and what you do is take away the access to cars to your average person. Unless you can afford a new car under lease, you cannot afford a car at all (after all, who would be absolutely insane enough to by an eight year old EV ....).

These things have got to be the worse most insane thing we have ever done for the environment ... hands down ... easily.

seeya
Shane L.

RANDLOVER

13th August 2025, 12:41 PM

.....we are talking battery fires, not "car" fires. If you want to compare the electric car fires to something, it needs to be other battery fires, not car fires.

seeya
Shane L.

Batteries don't catch fire that easily. Don't believe me? Take the battery out of the laptop you're typing on and try to set it alight. In a fire safe place of course, like outside on a hard surface.

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 12:45 PM

Batteries don't catch fire that easily. Don't believe me? Take the battery out of the laptop you're typing on and try to set it alight. In a fire safe place of course, like outside on a hard surface.

Not ever. Why would you try this?. Do you know how toxic the fumes given off are :o:o:o The fires you see are batteries going into thermal run-away. They are internally breaking down. Why would you try to physically set one alight? Though you raise a very good issue, regardless of the source of igntion ... Wow big lithium batteries are hordously dangerous if there is a house/shed/bush fire etc....

If you really are interseted, Stached on youtube is doing a really good series on lithium battery fires at the moment, where he is doing this sort of thing.

RANDLOVER

13th August 2025, 02:14 PM

Not ever. Why would you try this?. Do you know how toxic the fumes given off are :o:o:o The fires you see are batteries going into thermal run-away. They are internally breaking down. Why would you try to physically set one alight? Though you raise a very good issue, regardless of the source of igntion .. lithium batteries are hordously dangerous if there is a house/shed/bush fire etc....

If you really are interseted, Stached on youtube is doing a really good series on lithium battery fires at the moment, where he is doing this sort of thing.

So does most of the stuff in most houses, a fire only has to take hold on one item for a little while to heat all the others items enough so that they start boiling off flammable gases and you have a "flash over", basically everything, everywhere all at once in the house catches fire.

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 03:09 PM

So does most of the stuff in most houses, a fire only has to take hold on one item for a little while to heat all the others items enough so that they start boiling off flammable gases and you have a "flash over", basically everything, everywhere all at once in the house catches fire.

You are just being ridiculous for no reason ...... Of course other stuff burns. It can easily be put out. A fire that involves a battery cannot be extinguished. That is why these cars being stored/parked/charged under buildings is so horrendously dangerous. Its one thing to have a fire the sprinkler system put out .... These batteries burn hot enough melt concrete ... the collapse building structures eg: that airport in england. The problem with them torching off while charging, is there is often other EV's (or should I say giant batteries) located right next to them, that then torch off.

I have no doubts, anywhere that allows storage of EV's will become basically un-insurable in the near future. The risk of massive destruction is just too high. I'm also sure over the next few years, car ferries will refuse to transport any ev or hyrbrid as they will be un-insurable in the event of a fire.

I don't understand this "but look over there other cars burn".... "Look over there, other cars can required tens of thousands to be spent on them" crazy examples. Yes I know, ICE cars will corrode the engines away in much the same time period [bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf] So hilarious ...

RANDLOVER

13th August 2025, 03:22 PM

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 03:35 PM

Fires are not so easily put out, lots of buildings and lives lost to fires every year. I have a more positive view it is the early days of ev's and ways will be found to deal with them.
I think an ICE fire is far more likely to cause other ICE vehicle fires next to it than an ev setting other ev's alight. I think the ev thermal runaway threshold is much higher than the petrol or diesel flashpoint.

They are trying ... There is a blanket that can apparently contain an EV fire.... only the gas can build up under it causing an explosion, and it burns so hot how can you get anywhere near it to apply it (hot air will just blow it away). A recent genius one is what looks to be a jack with a polnt on it that will pierce the battery pack and allow water to be injected straight into the battery pack. Just nuts ... Do volunteer to use this gizmo on a car that is in "thermal run-away". Even if your parked at a boat ramp, and there is a bulldozer nearby (the big blade to protect the driver) pushes the car into the ocean..... it will continue to burn underwater as the battery creates its own fuel.

You can't put it out, you can't smother it.... you can't breath the air near it ... but "don't worry, other things burn too". an "poeople die in other fires too" .... [FishSlap][FishSlap]

RANDLOVER

13th August 2025, 03:59 PM

AFAIK an ev battery will burn under water for a while till it cools, as it looses one of the prerequisites for fire namely heat, fuel, oxygen. It is not like solid state rocket fuel that self oxidises and makes its own oxygen to burn.

If things are as bad as you say, they might start to design ev's monocoques that act as as a bund, or bath tub, so it can just be filled with water to put it out. Much like diesel generators and oil filled transformers have a bund wall to prevent fuel escaping.

Luckily I don't have to volunteer to go to fires anymore, modern industrial electrical items are pretty safe, and I don't see why ev's can't be. I have been to electrical distribution board, vsd, motor, transformer, ups, battery, power pack, lighting, gpo socket, a/c fires actual or suspected fires. Early warning and fire inhibiting construction stopped those turning into disaster and the same can be done for ev's.

I don't see governments legislating for ev fires en masse so suspect the risk is small.

DoubleChevron

13th August 2025, 04:04 PM

AFAIK an ev battery will burn under water for a while till it cools, as it looses one of the prerequisites for fire namely heat, fuel, oxygen. It is not like solid state rocket fuel that self oxidises and makes its own oxygen to burn.

If things are as bad as you say, they might start to design ev's monocoques that act as as a bund, or bath tub, so it can just be filled with water to put it out. Much like diesel generators and oil filled transformers have a bund wall to prevent fuel escaping

No, the create there own fuel as they are burning. The water may cool it enough to stop it burning eventually .... but guess what water does ... it shorts batteries. So lucky you, it can burn again and again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQWGWtluejs

if you don't think water hurts the batteries ... whatever you do, don't google "flood ev", especially cars that have been flooded with salt water.

RANDLOVER

13th August 2025, 04:35 PM

If that's true there should be plumes of smoke that can be seen from outer space from the sunken car carriers. I'm sure most if not all of the ev fires have been investigated by the brigades and or coroner, so if they really are so dangerous why hasn't there been total bans on their sale and operation?

Captain_Rightfoot

13th August 2025, 04:55 PM

Captain_Rightfoot

13th August 2025, 05:09 PM

Oh come on .... The majority of cars get parked up ... generally just worn out but still working. If I went around my back paddock right now and spent a weekend with a battery and a boat tank, most of the parts cars would start and drive. They rest of them is just so far gone, they are not economically viable.

The average car age in australia is 10years old. I don't see a lot of EVs reaching this age and still being a functional vehicle. That's ok you think? 'Cos maybe its close to the average age. Well average ... means average, so likely HALF the cars on the road are over 10years old.

Bottom line ... enforce electric throw-aways like a lot of the luny 1st world countries are attempting, and what you do is take away the access to cars to your average person. Unless you can afford a new car under lease, you cannot afford a car at all (after all, who would be absolutely insane enough to by an eight year old EV ....).

These things have got to be the worse most insane thing we have ever done for the environment ... hands down ... easily.

seeya
Shane L.
Dude.. most modern ICE cars will be lucky to see 15 years. It's the modern way. I really don't see EV's being any different.

Tesla has been selling EV's in Australia since 2014. AFAIK they haven't all spontaneously combusted, nor needed battery replacements. They seem to be getting on with it just fine.

If you want to get yourself concerned about short lived modern cars I really think you should be sending that firehose of angst at landrover. I don't think there will be many discoveries/defenders making it past 15 once the era of highly electronic cars. Just for fun I looked at carsales just now. There were quite a few older Discos (1,2), and ONE 2004 D3, and not a single other until like 2013. Only D4's. Because they are all basically being written off. Go and hate on them!

Yes some older cars can live far longer, but modern cars their first 10 years are their best years. After that they are basically on borrowed time.

RANDLOVER

13th August 2025, 06:42 PM

Agreed, I think one could keep a Range Rover Classic or Series Landy running for ever, even if one had to eventually convert it to ev.

DoubleChevron

14th August 2025, 10:10 AM

Dude.. most modern ICE cars will be lucky to see 15 years. It's the modern way. I really don't see EV's being any different.

Tesla has been selling EV's in Australia since 2014. AFAIK they haven't all spontaneously combusted, nor needed battery replacements. They seem to be getting on with it just fine.

.

Yes, lets just go in circles. You do have a point, it appears in recent time manufacturers and trying to make cars as unreliable as EV's. wet cambelts for example is insane ... oil pump running from belts is insane ... etc... Uncle tony likes to go off a conspiracy theorys like this, but as per usual, each side of an opinion has some valid points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKEkUs8MTnQ&vl=en

So the best option here is to make ICE car decent again, rather than trying to make them as crappy reliability wise as EV's.

seeya
Shane L.

NavyDiver

14th August 2025, 08:28 PM

https://youtu.be/G05hA8rp6sk'si=6GJolDDX8lIqgtUx

Tombie

14th August 2025, 11:49 PM

PhilipA

15th August 2025, 06:58 AM

There was a report from "Geoff" in UK that a BYD seal did a new distance record in UK. It completed AFAIR 790 miles in 23hours. That is an average speed of 25MPH or 40KMh. Apparently police stopped them for dangerous driving but when heard it was a record attempt, waved them on.

Regards PhilipA

Saitch

15th August 2025, 07:28 AM

https://youtu.be/G05hA8rp6sk'si=6GJolDDX8lIqgtUx

Gotta love the sound of a Scalextric car, ay! [bigwhistle]

PhilipA

15th August 2025, 07:31 AM

DoubleChevron

15th August 2025, 10:11 AM

This is a video about CATL developing a new battery technology. This could actually make EVs practical. CATL is the major supplier of EV batteries in the World.
How CATL Made Batteries 90% Cheaper (And What Happens Next) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf84NJSiAeU)
Regards PhilipA

Do they torch off though? Seriously if they prove safe, this is a game changer. Sure EVs will still suck for all the usual reasons, but at least they can be safely shipped, transported, stored and possibly charged pretty much anywhere safely.

Now if the sodium battery isn't full of nasty chemicals, we can replace it without all of the current dramas, with no need to "pretend" they will be recycled.

Tins

15th August 2025, 10:25 AM

Gotta love the sound of a Scalextric car, ay! [bigwhistle]

I want to see it fly off at the corner, bounce off the chair leg and infuriate the cat.

Tins

15th August 2025, 10:26 AM

Do they torch off though?

Do they need child slave labour mining for their minerals?

Captain_Rightfoot

15th August 2025, 12:05 PM

Do they need child slave labour mining for their minerals?
No cobalt involved. As is increasingly the case.

DoubleChevron

15th August 2025, 12:36 PM

No cobalt involved. As is increasingly the case.

That's not the only issue. when you take into account the luny net zero nutters claims. We have nowhere near enough nickel, copper .... well really, lots of stuff in the world. Not even enough mines exist, even if we could empty the mines tomorrow to even come close to the moronic claims they are making.

Its a world where have blind belief and zero common sense is the only thing that matters.

seeya
Shane L.

Eevo

15th August 2025, 01:53 PM

as a CFS firefighter, we have plently of training on EV fires. EV fires can be be **** scarry, molten lithium... not even my PBI gold PPE will protect me from that!

after 12 years, im pretty confifent i can handle most things, structure fire, bush fires, car crashes, etc. but not EV fires.

RANDLOVER

15th August 2025, 02:47 PM

That's not the only issue. when you take into account the luny net zero nutters claims. We have nowhere near enough nickel, copper .... well really, lots of stuff in the world. Not even enough mines exist, even if we could empty the mines tomorrow to even come close to the moronic claims they are making.

Its a world where have blind belief and zero common sense is the only thing that matters.

seeya
Shane L.

We always seem to find more of what we need if people are prepared to pay for it. "Peak Oil" has been predicted since 1965. Peak oil - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil#:~:text=increased%20extraction%20rates.-,M.,range%20from%202028%20to%202050).

What cannot be replaced are creatures like the dodo, Tasmania tiger, etc.

DoubleChevron

15th August 2025, 03:45 PM

We always seem to find more of what we need if people are prepared to pay for it. "Peak Oil" has been predicted since 1965. Peak oil - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil#:~:text=increased%20extraction%20rates.-,M.,range%20from%202028%20to%202050).

What cannot be replaced are creatures like the dodo, Tasmania tiger, etc.

This is a very different thing. Do you understand how much red tape is involved in opening a new copper mine for example (decades). There isn't enough
copper in the worlds mines currently to even come close ... thousands of percent of requirements short.

Its nuts. No-one has claimed for decades peak oil will ever happen. There is huge reserves all over the world yet to be tapped. As the cost of oil increases over the decades/centuries these will become viable to access.

Threads like this are truly eye opening with regards to what poeple believe if the loonies yell it loud enough.

seeya
Shane L.

Tombie

15th August 2025, 03:48 PM

No cobalt involved. As is increasingly the case.

No, but there are people in nations having their lives destroyed and their water source disappearing whilst the companies extract all the nearby lithium they can.

Tombie

15th August 2025, 03:52 PM

We always seem to find more of what we need if people are prepared to pay for it. "Peak Oil" has been predicted since 1965. Peak oil - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil#:~:text=increased%20extraction%20rates.-,M.,range%20from%202028%20to%202050).

What cannot be replaced are creatures like the dodo, Tasmania tiger, etc.

If you're referring to Climate change due to Carbon, well that's another fallacy in Australia.

Australia is already beyond Carbon Neutral.
Our emissions do not exceed what our country is capable of sequestration. In fact by a pretty bloody decent margin.

We, as a nation, don't produce as much as the country sorts - how good is that [emoji846].

Canberra will tell you we need to pay more, spend more, do more - all for their benefit. Truth is we don't. We can have coal power and be neutral. We could have nuclear and be even more in credit, and cheaper.

None of that suits the narrative?.

RANDLOVER

15th August 2025, 04:05 PM

This is a very different thing. Do you understand how much red tape is involved in opening a new copper mine for example (decades). There isn't enough
copper in the worlds mines currently to even come close ... thousands of percent of requirements short.

Its nuts. No-one has claimed for decades peak oil will ever happen. There is huge reserves all over the world yet to be tapped. As the cost of oil increases over the decades/centuries these will become viable to access.

Threads like this are truly eye opening with regards to what poeple believe if the loonies yell it loud enough.

seeya
Shane L.

If you're referring to Climate change due to Carbon, well that's another fallacy in Australia.

Australia is already beyond Carbon Neutral.
Our emissions do not exceed what our country is capable of sequestration. In fact by a pretty bloody decent margin.

We, as a nation, don't produce as much as the country sorts - how good is that [emoji846].

Canberra will tell you we need to pay more, spend more, do more - all for their benefit. Truth is we don't. We can have coal power and be neutral. We could have nuclear and be even more in credit, and cheaper.

None of that suits the narrative?.

Says who, some guys on youtube?

RANDLOVER

15th August 2025, 04:11 PM

One EV thing had me laughing today.

A group heading to the Mundi Mundi bash includes 2x EVs towing caravans.

Their friend is towing a 17kva Genset behind his Diesel Land Cruiser for them to charge from every 250km.

I'm not joking!
A genset/stationary engine is more efficient as it runs in it's optimum rev/torque band, and doesn't have to be sized for the fastest speed and power the vehicle will ever have to do. Then if that Genset was diesel and ran on biodiesel, charging those EV's would be very low emissions indeed.

Even better if the LC ran on bio as well.

Captain_Rightfoot

15th August 2025, 05:12 PM

Eevo

15th August 2025, 05:18 PM

How many have you seen thus far? How many ICE car fires?

12 years, about 1 per year.
so 12. 1 was a tesla. worst smelling was a a camry, hardest to put out was the tesla and a f150 yank thing. 12,000l of water.

Captain_Rightfoot

15th August 2025, 05:23 PM

12 years, about 1 per year.
so 12. 1 was a tesla. worst smelling was a a camry, hardest to put out was the tesla and a f150 yank thing. 12,000l of water.
Wow you are quite lucky/unlucky to have been involved in one of the few tesla fires. Last I heard there had been a total of 8 recorded and verified EV fires in Australia.

DiscoDB

15th August 2025, 09:00 PM

Wow you are quite lucky/unlucky to have been involved in one of the few tesla fires. Last I heard there had been a total of 8 recorded and verified EV fires in Australia.

Actually up to ten now in Australia.

[emoji640] involved in car accidents.
[emoji639] in building fires.
[emoji638] from arson.
[emoji637] when being charged.

Shocking!

Eevo

15th August 2025, 09:27 PM

Wow you are quite lucky/unlucky to have been involved in one of the few tesla fires. Last I heard there had been a total of 8 recorded and verified EV fires in Australia.

i would doubt that low number very much.
the one i went to was a result of an accident/crash

Eevo

15th August 2025, 11:47 PM

some battery science n history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGglJehON5g&ab_channel=Veritasium

Captain_Rightfoot

16th August 2025, 07:37 AM

Actually up to ten now in Australia.

[emoji640] involved in car accidents.
[emoji639] in building fires.
[emoji638] from arson.
[emoji637] when being charged.

Shocking!
I was aware of another one since the 8 which was last year.. A vehicle reportedly charging (not tesla) on the GoldCoast which will be the first one in Aus if true. [bigsad] Looking at the shape of the wreck was not Tesla.

EV fire safe provide regular updates, and investigate all the fires. As at last year the breakdown was.

8 in total as at Nov 2024. 1 Arson, three housefires, three high speed collision, 1 unknown.

Will be interesting to see the next update.

02.1 EV battery fire data | EV Fire Safe (https://www.evfiresafe.com/ev-battery-fire-data)

We must keep this in context though. If my defender catches fire under my house my house is gone. I don't buy this "mild" fire stuff. All vehicle fires are serious.

In comparison, Fire and Rescue NSW responded to 2803 fires involving petrol and diesel vehicles in 2022-2023 alone.

Tins

16th August 2025, 08:47 AM

Boat's a vehicle, right?

https://youtu.be/JWBt6nv8U58'si=vR4ShDk2cYkjhvhW

DoubleChevron

16th August 2025, 04:22 PM

Says who, some guys on youtube?

Everyone that isn't a net zero luny. This is common knowledge, there isn't enough copper, nickle, lithium, cobalt etc .... being mined in the world to even come remotely close to any of the insane (completely nuts.... impossible as anyone with even the tiniest brain can easily see) claims. Just look at the UK if you want too see peak stupidity in action.

Geologists doubt Earth has enough copper to develop the world - Earth.com (https://www.earth.com/news/amount-of-copper-needed-to-power-tech-and-develop-the-world-is-astonishing-not-enough/)

ridiculous windmills .... that burn and only work spardically are incredibly maitinance hungry .... also require staggering amounts of concrete (the biggest greenhouse emmisions we have), endless metal, copper etc.....

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/03/97/bd/0397bd5f665791fd65ca72dd85618e1c.jpg

just insane ... tiny lifespan ... they are everywhere around me. I rarely see them turning. I'm guessing they are mostly switched off or broken.

solar panels .... yeah, last about 15years, hail, wind, fire .... everything can damage them. Fortunately they can create power 24 hours a day and don't contain toxic chemicals ..... Oh hang on ... yes they do [bighmmm]

The amount of coal and mined materials we ship to china to built all of this throw away insanity doesn't cost a thing to the environment [tonguewink]

Everything about this net zero insanity is just mind numbingly ridiculous and stupid. blind freddy can see its just about giving tax payers money to whatever the latest goverment mates are. How many hundred million of tax payer money should we gift to the next lot to "maybe" build some car chargers .... maybe.

Its all so ridiculous. At least we are rushing madly to the cliff like the UK. That place sounds to have turned into a hell hole. Electric boats anyone (is there anything dumber in the universe). The only thing I can think of more dangerous than a ship fire .... is putting tons (litteraly tons) of lithium battery on a boat ... and sending off onto the water.

seeya
Shane L.

Eevo

17th August 2025, 01:58 PM

02.1 EV battery fire data | EV Fire Safe (https://www.evfiresafe.com/ev-battery-fire-data)

cant be trusted.
been more than 8 bus battery fires in SA alone

RANDLOVER

17th August 2025, 03:40 PM

cant be trusted.
been more than 8 bus battery fires in SA alone

Please feel free to report that via...02.6 Report an EV fire | EV Fire Safe (https://www.evfiresafe.com/report-ev-fire)

Captain_Rightfoot

17th August 2025, 05:22 PM

cant be trusted.
been more than 8 bus battery fires in SA alone
Yes please do report and let us know how you go! Getting good data is King.

Captain_Rightfoot

17th August 2025, 05:28 PM

So I'm intrigued.. given the people in this thread seem to be largely .... lets say.. climate deniers. Leaving that aside for a moment.

How do you feel about Australias fuel security? A few calculations suggests that my Defender in its 200,000km.. I've used about 24,000 litres of diesel. Which I think is quite a bit.

Of great concern to me is we import a lot of fuel from India these days, much of it is made from Russian oil which is funding the war in ukraine.

Meanwhile the EV is at worst charged using good old Queensland coal, mined (relatively) locally and "refined" into power really quite locally. Good Aussie electricity, if not my roof top solar. No oil dug up and sent around the world in shaddow fleet tankers to be refined in a foreign country and shipped here. IMHO this is a big plus for EV's.