EV general discussion

[Homestar]

Couldn't find a suitable thread to put the below pic in, so starting a new one that anything EV related can go in.

Was wondering when I parked behind this Tesla what it may be towing...151476

[Chops]

A recharging unit [bigwhistle]

[goingbush]

A recharging unit [bigwhistle]


:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[goingbush]

Couldn't find a suitable thread to put the below pic in, so starting a new one that anything EV related can go in.

Was wondering when I parked behind this Tesla what it may be towing...151476

(oops I pushed edit instead of reply,... fixed)

too bad its not an Electric PWC , .....bloody noisy things

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58711526_10157012250541217_4294886902802153472_o.j pg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=b78e07fb2177e0c4d3b243eba6ce4649&oe=5D9A29B1

[LRJim]

Couldn't find a suitable thread to put the below pic in, so starting a new one that anything EV related can go in.

Was wondering when I parked behind this Tesla what it may be towing...151476A place to connect the bike rack [emoji23][emoji23]

[NavyDiver]

Trucks are getting closer

This Canadian company has orders and suggest commercial deliveries starting this year. It also is working to reduce the cost of fuel cells which may be of interest to retro fitters in the near future. 151494 (http://www.ballard.com/about-ballard/newsroom/news-releases/2019/05/07/ballard-next-gen-fuel-cell-modules-to-power-freight-trucks-in-canadian-hydrogen-project)

[cripesamighty]

I found this to be interesting. A Tesla tow test in Australia.

2019 Tesla Model X Long Range Tow Test: Video (https://insideevs.com/news/345855/2019-tesla-model-x-long-range-tow-test-video/)

[goingbush]

Speaking of Fuel Cells, US Military can see the massive advantages of EV


https://youtu.be/nzye6NnFBUI

GM Defense Shows Off New, Military-Spec Chevrolet Silverado ZH2 | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2018/11/gm-defense-shows-off-new-military-spec-chevrolet-silverado-zh2/?fbclid=IwAR2t02zbProH-S41FcAybzkh38oA3qHNzLVseuNdjmNC8UIPRoQIHdssgjc)

[goingbush]

Whats there not to love about a 101 ?

check it out .

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61982146_2246629318752179_2777834158125219840_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=a6f7afdf3cc6dec7988de0d9224bc782&oe=5D9548BD




https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61641495_2247045165377261_5821859656133246976_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=1406d0635c39eb8c6b79eb2a4fa93b30&oe=5D9E953B

[grey_ghost]

Hmmm. An electric 101... [emoji848][emoji6]

[DiscoMick]

Teslas are good tow vehicles.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/tesla-model-x-2017-tow-test-106452/

[Kaps]

Teslas are good tow vehicles.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/tesla-model-x-2017-tow-test-106452/

Towing a 2.2t van drops the range of a Tesla Model X 100 from a little over 500km to a little over 200km. On a supercharger, that's about 4 1/2 hours to travel every 200km.
You'll need the van.

If I was going to tour in a Tesla, I'd motel it. Leave the van at home.

[mick88]

Victoria Police launch first all-electric operational vehicleVictoria Police has taken the first steps in what could be the biggest development in police vehicles since their introduction almost 100 years ago, becoming one of the first jurisdictions in the world to put an all-electric vehicle into its operational fleet.
From today, Victoria Police’s Road Policing Command will utilise the all-electric Tesla Model X in highway patrol operational duties, a first for an Australian police organisation.
Victoria Police purchased the five-door, five-seat SUV as part of a feasibility study into developing fully integrated electric, IT-based police vehicles for fleet use.
The one-off procurement has allowed Victoria Police to undertake a research and development project on the vehicle.


The one-off procurement has allowed Victoria Police to undertake a research and development project on the vehicle.
This project will see Victoria Police work with Tesla engineers, emergency equipment manufacturers, the department’s vehicle installation contractor and Victoria Police’s IT and communications technicians in fitting equipment and integrating police software into the vehicle’s on-board system.
The vehicle will be a fully fitted and functioning Highway Patrol vehicle and will be trialled across various regions in consultation with the Road Policing Command
“This vehicle is unlike any other Victoria Police has ever had in its fleet and could well be the future of road policing in this state, country and the world,” Road Policing Command Assistant Commissioner Stephen Leane said.
“Our Highway Patrol cars are equipped with cutting edge technology and this car gives us the opportunity to investigate having these technologies in a fully integrated in-car system which has the potential of streamlining the road policing effort.

“There is also a great environmental benefit to electric vehicles and considering our State Highway Patrol vehicles travel thousands of kilometres on the road per year, we should always be looking at ways we can lessen our impact on the environment.”
AC Leane said the vehicle will undergo constant assessment while in operation to further determine its suitability for road policing duties.
“It is important to remember this is a concept vehicle for Victoria Police and we acknowledge that it will produce a number of unique circumstances and will continue to evolve as police software is integrated,” he said.
“Vehicles are obviously critical to the work we do as they represent the mobile office for many of our frontline police and projects such as these mean that when the switch does inevitably happen, our job of keeping Victorians safe will not be compromised.”


From the Victoria Police website.

Below a couple of pics of the Tesla Model X

Cheers, Mick.

[DiscoMick]

I understand that Queensland Police have trialled a Tesla, but decided not to introduce it as a highway car at this time. An officer who drove it told me it had great acceleration.

[oneten]

A place to connect the bike rack [emoji23][emoji23]

That was my first thought as soon as I saw it, and I assume most luxury car owners would not want to scratch their paint with a strap-on type that sits on the boot/hatch.

[Homestar]

Another one for the statistics on EV's and for Self driving tech. Everyone got out thankfully but not without suffering injuries. Not sure what sort of distance these vehicles look ahead or if there was a failure of something.

Tesla Model 3: Car bursts into flames after crash involving tow truck (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/tesla-model-3-explodes-after-assisted-driving-system-failure-reportedly-leads-to-crash/news-story/e871715990b7c759b886059d223eb91f)

[cripesamighty]

So, hypothetically, if the Tesla police car was at the end of a shift and low on battery power, and it was involved in a chase, all the crims would need to do is keep driving until the Tesla runs out of juice and then make their getaway....

[vnx205]

So, hypothetically, if the Tesla police car was at the end of a shift and low on battery power, and it was involved in a chase, all the crims would need to do is keep driving until the Tesla runs out of juice and then make their getaway....

So, hypothetically, if a petrol powered police car was at the end of a shift and low on petrol, and it was involved in a chase, all the crims would need to do is keep driving until the police car runs out of juice and then make their getaway....
[bighmmm]

[Homestar]

So, hypothetically, if the Tesla police car was at the end of a shift and low on battery power, and it was involved in a chase, all the crims would need to do is keep driving until the Tesla runs out of juice and then make their getaway....

They have these remarkable new fangled devices now which allow them to magically get other Police involved as needed - it's called a Radio... [emoji6]

...And the Tesla is likely to be MUCH faster than a good 'ol boy in a dunny door anyway.

...And as pointed out - an ICE vehicle can be in exactly the same situation...

[cripesamighty]

The hypothetical comes from having members of your family who are traffic police, and they tell you that on some nights there may be only one or two cars patrolling the entirety of Perth's northern suburbs. If you are the only car on patrol, or your backup is 25km away (which may well be ICE powered with twice your range), then maybe Murphy will have a laugh at your expense!

Edit: Hypothetically, this may or may not have happened several times and the officers involved spat the chewy and demanded more cars on patrol, budget or no budget.....

[Homestar]

I’m not surprised they jacked up at that - we have more than that on patrol in our comparatively small town. Although they did get shot at last night! They had to hide in the McDonalds store, but not sure if they were in there before or after the shooting started. 😁

[cripesamighty]

I think they are putting more cars on the road now. As for your local boys in blue, that doesn't sound like a fun day at the office!

[Homestar]

I bet it wasn’t, but they did get the bastards within a couple of hours. 👍

[goingbush]

The hypothetical comes from having members of your family who are traffic police, and they tell you that on some nights there may be only one or two cars patrolling the entirety of Perth's northern suburbs. If you are the only car on patrol, or your backup is 25km away (which may well be ICE powered with twice your range), then maybe Murphy will have a laugh at your expense!

Edit: Hypothetically, this may or may not have happened several times and the officers involved spat the chewy and demanded more cars on patrol, budget or no budget.....

Fairly ridiculous argument, 450km is more than enough for one shift .

[cripesamighty]

I think 450km range might be ok for a Tesla passenger car or a Tesla taxi shift, but maybe not a Tesla Police pursuit cars shift, hence why Qld trialed it and dropped it for the time being. Operationally, EV's will definitely have their place, but you might have forgotten how hard those cars get driven sometimes! The range goes down quite a bit when EV's get thrashed. That's not even taking into account overtime demands (sometimes hours worth), or handing over cars from one shift to the next (charge times vs availability?). Also, if you are stationed in the country that range is hardly acceptable. Don't get me wrong, I think they are great assets to have in the local Police inventory, but range anxiety will play a part every once in a while. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

Most if not all police cars need the motor running to keep the lights on if called out to an incident, even with rooftop LED's. Many a cop has turned off the engine when called out to a traffic accident, with the car set up as a roadblock, with the headlights switched on and rooflights required to be flashing for hours at a time and then the lights go out - to much embarrassment, especially at night. From what I have been told, you only forget to leave the car running once!

Stepping into this specialised role the Tesla would be used as a work vehicle, with extra electrical demands (lights plus electronics - radios and other gadgets etc) placed on it, plus possible frequent hard driving. The situation will often present itself as not a 'range' issue per se, but available battery capacity to do the job - safely. The Tesla site is fun to have a play with the online settings when configuring a car. The range goes up or down depending on outside air temps, speed being driven, using ludicrous mode, running the aircon or heater, turning on lights, size of tyres chosen, etc. If/when available, the Rivian's 600km range in a Tesla would probably cover most eventualities!

However, I still think it's a good start though!

[350RRC]

I’m not surprised they jacked up at that - we have more than that on patrol in our comparatively small town. Although they did get shot at last night! They had to hide in the McDonalds store, but not sure if they were in there before or after the shooting started. 😁

Do Maccas do donuts?

[cripesamighty]

McCafe do donuts....

[Homestar]

Tesla in the news again - Tesla owner who saw range slashed by software update filed class action lawsuit - Electrek (https://electrek.co/2019/08/08/tesla-owner-range-slashed-software-update-class-action-lawsuit/)

John Cadogan has a good little video up on YouTube at the moment about it. 😁

[Don 130]

How about this then

Home | The electric car that charges itself with sunlight | Lightyear (https://lightyear.one)

https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjx0ebsjYLkAhWZfSsKHcAIDK0QwqsBMAF6BAgJE AQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbS bWwn_YCr8&usg=AOvVaw0lRt1QNIxSOdUGUqLz5Lco

https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjx0ebsjYLkAhWZfSsKHcAIDK0QwqsBMAJ6BAgJE Ac&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWE jQkkrsY5Y&usg=AOvVaw1JW-lTqppJ-RzhGVroHm8B

Don

[Homestar]

Love the concept and all EV’s should have some solar on them to assist but it is a bit of a token gesture really but at $135K! Holy ****! Not sure why they think it’s worth that for 50KM per day extra from the solar panels in ideal conditions.

Other major OEM’s are miles in front of these guys. Audi’s EV motor plant is already producing components and is world class, not just a CH animation and their stuff is selling MUCH cheaper. Glueing a few solar panels to the roof doesn’t make it worth those dollars.

While I commend the effort I think the major players will overtake all of these start ups in pretty short order in the next couple of years with the billions being poured into R&D.

[cripesamighty]

Personally, I am waiting to see if the Rivian and Bollinger variants manage to get off the ground. They would make a great work vehicle.

[tc_s1]

Apparently Rivian is far enough off the ground that it is now offering camp accessories for its vehicles -
Cooking in the Wild by Rivian - Rivian Stories (https://stories.rivian.com/cooking-in-the-wild'source=share-rivian&mc_cid=f6a70823fd&mc_eid=b406165de7)

[Homestar]

Would be better if they concentrated on the vehicle at this point in time IMO...

[cripesamighty]

As far as I know, the pull-out camping drawers/kitchenette, were a proof-of-concept that they produced at the last minute (so they had a talking point) before going to a large camping/trade show. It was to demonstrate what Rivian (or owners) might do in the future to fitout their vehicles for offroading/camping, and isn't a prototype or even slated for production as yet. Having said that, it worked pretty well for being pretty much slapped together!

[Ancient Mariner]

Interesting comments by John Cadogen[bigsad]

[goingbush]

If everyone took any notice of that idiot no one would be driving a LandRover, the bloke is total Jerk.

[Fausto79]

If everyone took any notice of that idiot no one would be driving a LandRover, the bloke is total Jerk.

I cannot stand that guy. Such an arrogant (word starting with a).

[Homestar]

So just because you don’t like him, you dismiss the whole premise of the video? A $53,000 EV that is worth scrap value after 7 years. Like him or not, that is quite concerning IMO and the OEM’s don’t need bad press like this while trying to roll out EV’s - would have been smarter to just replace the battery and keep quiet IMO.

[p38arover]

I wonder if the owner told John that Nissan, some time back, dropped the price to $9,000 - according to a thread on the Whirlpool forum.

[Homestar]

He didn't no. But that's still as much as the vehicle is worth. Is there some question as to if the battery warranty still applied but isn't being honored? Not sure on that one though. IMO it shows how far we have to go to make EV's viable long term.

Don't flame me, I like the tech and would own one but I'm also practical.

[goingbush]

EV no different to ICE , same as any new car , they drop 20% value as soon as you drive them out the showroom and then continue to lose value at an exponential rate until they are valueless at about 15-20 years .

You can buy good Gen1 Nissan Leafs ex Japan for $5000 with excellent battery packs , Its the way to go if you want to do an EV Conversion , You could not buy a new motor & controller as powerful as the Leaf motor for under $10,000 and you batteries thrown in.

Renault might have the right idea, with their EV's you pay for the car and lease the batteries.

[NavyDiver]

Love the idea but question the facts. I have 50 odd solar panels at work and home. One produces a little over 1 KwH per day (or less). I appreciate a car parked in a sunny spot could get 1Kwh or so in a day. QLD suggest "15 kWh/100km" for EV and "Total operational savings in 5 years $5,248" (https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/electricvehicles/about/compare)I think that's very conservative cost saving as they used 7.6l per 100km for the fuel cost comparison.

This gent came up with some numbers based on 100,000km after his EV got to 50,000km traveled.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEHeayGG_AA

[JDNSW]

EV no different to ICE , same as any new car , they drop 20% value as soon as you drive them out the showroom and then continue to lose value at an exponential rate until they are valueless at about 15-20 years .

..........

While this is probably correct in general, it varies (although the initial drop is almost always there). As an example, my 33 year old 110 is now conservatively worth 50% of what I paid for it 26 years ago, and the 49 year old 2a is worth at least as much as I paid for it about 30 years ago, and possibly as much as double that. A couple of years ago I sold my Citroen for just under what I paid for it in 1978 or 79.

[goingbush]

Ive just clocked over 9000km in my Landy since converting it to EV , has cost me nothing , zero to run , as it from our solar , but at 30kwh per 100km @ $0.25 / kwh it would have cost $675.00

On petrol 20L/100km @ $1.45 it would have cost $2610.00 , but then when it was petrol I only drove it on weekends as I had a more economical car to drive, now I drive it daily as it so easy and convenient .. and basically free.

The batteries are good for 3000 charge cycles say 80% DOD , lets say worst case 2000 x 80km = 160,000km , its taken me 2 years to do 9000km so the batteries will last another 33 years or so. Conversion cost me $22,000 which works out at $628 per year.

No to mention no engine servicing required , oil / filters / belts / coolant etc.

I can't see the problem or understand the negativity.

[goingbush]

While this is probably correct in general, it varies (although the initial drop is almost always there). As an example, my 33 year old 110 is now conservatively worth 50% of what I paid for it 26 years ago, and the 49 year old 2a is worth at least as much as I paid for it about 30 years ago, and possibly as much as double that. A couple of years ago I sold my Citroen for just under what I paid for it in 1978 or 79.

Yes , I was talking in general and 15-20 years. then after 25 years prices increase as you know. But not sure they will for modern cars that have no hope of ever being a classic.
I have 2001 PT cruiser which is in pristine condition and its worth nothing , I'd have to pay to have it taken away .
I also just paid about 10x the 1949 new car price for a '49 Dodge Ute that has a seized engine and no brakes.

[Homestar]

Ive just clocked over 9000km in my Landy since converting it to EV , has cost me nothing , zero to run , as it from our solar , but at 30kwh per 100km @ $0.25 / kwh it would have cost $675.00

On petrol 20L/100km @ $1.45 it would have cost $2610.00 , but then when it was petrol I only drove it on weekends as I had a more economical car to drive, now I drive it daily as it so easy and convenient .. and basically free.

The batteries are good for 3000 charge cycles say 80% DOD , lets say worst case 2000 x 80km = 160,000km , its taken me 2 years to do 9000km so the batteries will last another 33 years or so. Conversion cost me $22,000 which works out at $628 per year.

No to mention no engine servicing required , oil / filters / belts / coolant etc.

I can't see the problem or understand the negativity.

Absolutely no negativity with your conversion, it makes complete sense. What I find harder to stomach is a vehicle costing more than $50K being worthless only 7 years later with under 100,000 KM on it - that's not sustainable and with issues like this rearing their heads, it's not surprising that the uptake here is very low.

If I had the funds I'd convert my RRC to EV tomorrow - would be an ideal weekend run around and I'd only need 100 or so KM per charge too.

[Homestar]

EV no different to ICE , same as any new car , they drop 20% value as soon as you drive them out the showroom and then continue to lose value at an exponential rate until they are valueless at about 15-20 years .

You can buy good Gen1 Nissan Leafs ex Japan for $5000 with excellent battery packs , Its the way to go if you want to do an EV Conversion , You could not buy a new motor & controller as powerful as the Leaf motor for under $10,000 and you batteries thrown in.

Renault might have the right idea, with their EV's you pay for the car and lease the batteries.

That sounds like a much better idea to be honest - what sort of yearly cost do you know?

[DiscoMick]

I went on a solar powered boat today. It cruises Lawn Hill Gorge. Has 2000 watts of solar panels on the roof, four batteries and runs 48 volts.

[goingbush]

That sounds like a much better idea to be honest - what sort of yearly cost do you know?

Not sure if Renault Australia have the same setup. In Europe you cant buy the battery , buy the car & rental / lease only for the battery.

Battery hire | Renault Finance | Services | Renault UK (https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-finance/battery-hire.html)

[gavinwibrow]

I went on a solar powered boat today. It cruises Lawn Hill Gorge. Has 2000 watts of solar panels on the roof, four batteries and runs 48 volts.


And the skipper assured me they have never run out of grunt - not that it works very hard, but a good usage!

[DiscoMick]

Did three tours a day while we were there. I took a picture but it seems to have vanished.

[Eevo]

155423

[Don 130]

155423

Priceless!!😂

Don.

[NavyDiver]

155423

[biggrin] I think one of these would be a quicker charge for the EV Eevo
HYMERA(R) Hydrogen Fuel Cell Generator | BOConline Ireland (https://www.boconline.ie/en/products-and-supply/industrial-products/hymera-generator/hymera-generator.html)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdJZWgBDn_I&feature=youtu.be

[DiscoMick]

155423So what's funny about that? If it couldn't reach a charge point then it could be charged with a generator. So what?

[Eevo]

So what's funny about that? If it couldn't reach a charge point then it could be charged with a generator. So what?

the bumper sticker
what do generators of that size run on?

[NavyDiver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvnEvJ3M5sE

What was interesting the two running already with 48 more now ordered. ROI looks really good. I was thinking Japan would be the first. Frogs sold us Submarines and now have possibly the first wave of new tech I think might be the real EV evolution.

Adding this one below which is "NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE"! Comments re Japan at about 3:40 and so much more of interest in my thoughts. Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games to use hydrogen fuel. According to numerous news outlets and documents shared by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government (TMG), the organising committee of the 2020 Tokyo Olympic and Paralympic Games, is planning to create a 6,000-unit Olympic village which will function on hydrogen (H2) fuel link (https://www.gasworld.com/tokyo-2020-olympic-games-to-use-hydrogen-fuel-/2016200.article)
With Korea, Japan Germany and England all moving quickly to Hydrogen I suspect my thoughts of a battery powered Disco 3 just might change to a fuel cell [biggrin]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKQyKgMNwLU&list=PL5x8KKXZmk05WfKYRWDWjMrY K87AdzyQZ&index=22&app=desktop

[DiscoMick]

I see Boris Johnson has promised to spend 500 million pounds so everyone in England and Wales is within 30 miles of an EV charging point.
He's also promised to increase offshore wind generation from 30 to 40 GW, creating 9000 jobs.
Very forward thinking, particularly from a Conservative politician. There seems to be agreement about alternate energy policies in the UK, which is aiming for zero emissions. Great to see.
I can't post the link because it's a political story, but you can find it in the UK politics section of The Guardian news website.

[turps]

I see Boris Johnson has promised to spend 500 million pounds so everyone in England and Wales is within 30 miles of an EV charging point..

I think for aust all these charging points are generally a waste of money.
Great out on the highways and maybe the random towns. Or mine routes between places.
But most users would take there car home and plug in over night while they are watching tv and sleeping.
In my case if I had one. Why would I drive to the local supermarket to charge my Tesla.
When I could have plugged it in overnight.
Oh and I have seen the new local Tesla Supercharger used for the first couple of days. And I am not sure I have seen a car there since.

[goingbush]

I think for aust all these charging points are generally a waste of money.
Great out on the highways and maybe the random towns. Or mine routes between places.
But most users would take there car home and plug in over night while they are watching tv and sleeping.
In my case if I had one. Why would I drive to the local supermarket to charge my Tesla.
When I could have plugged it in overnight.
Oh and I have seen the new local Tesla Supercharger used for the first couple of days. And I am not sure I have seen a car there since.

Indeed, ive only ever charged mine at home, why would you do it any other way unless your on a trip.. You don't take your phone to a public charge point to charge it.

[Chops]

Indeed, ive only ever charged mine at home, why would you do it any other way unless your on a trip.. You don't take your phone to a public charge point to charge it.

Funny you should say that Don. You quite often see people at power points in cafes etc charging because they either forgot, or used it excessively and ran out of power.
So this begs the question, I wonder how “mainstream “ people consistently using the car, not referring to a trip, but just around the city for arguments sake, will need to do this (??)
Im guessing personally, you’ll only cock up once, maybe twice before you learn to remember to charge the car.

[turps]

Actually I would probably need to use it all the time. As I would have it locked in ludicrous mode. As have been driving slow diesels for way to many years now. I want fast.

[DiscoMick]

I've been surprised at how many EV charging points I've noticed while travelling in NQ. I didn't realize so many were around. They have been pairs of 7Kw chargers.

[turps]

I've been surprised at how many EV charging points I've noticed while travelling in NQ. I didn't realize so many were around. They have been pairs of 7Kw chargers.

The newish Bendigo Hospital has a couple of chargers. 1 or 2 for visitors. And a couple more in the executive/doctor only parking.
That one I can understand as some work some very irregular hours.

[PhilipA]

The newish Bendigo Hospital has a couple of chargers. 1 or 2 for visitors. And a couple more in the executive/doctor only parking.
That one I can understand as some work some very irregular hours.

And of course doctors are some of the privileged few who can afford EVs. Average GP salary 269K. Specialist????.
Regards PhilipA

[DiscoMick]

So apparently Queensland has an Electric Super Highway stretching from Coolangatta to Cairns and Brisbane to Toowoomba.
I see the one here in Bowen has 50kW and 22 kW fast chargers, so that's good.

Queensland's Electric Super Highway | Transport and motoring | Queensland Government (https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/electricvehicles/future/super-highway)

This comparison predicts buying an EV, despite the higher purchase price, could still produce a saving of about $5000 over 5 years.

Compare electric vehicle costs | Transport and motoring | Queensland Government (https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/electricvehicles/about/compare)

[DiscoMick]

Here's a story about driving the Queensland electric super highway.

$name (https://www.racq.com.au/TheRoadAhead/Articles/Cruising-the-EV-super-highway)

[goingbush]

Funny you should say that Don. You quite often see people at power points in cafes etc charging because they either forgot, or used it excessively and ran out of power.
So this begs the question, I wonder how “mainstream “ people consistently using the car, not referring to a trip, but just around the city for arguments sake, will need to do this (??)
Im guessing personally, you’ll only cock up once, maybe twice before you learn to remember to charge the car.

So True, Lots of People run out of Petrol now , I suppose the same people will run out of battery but will blame the technology instead of their own stupidity.

[turps]

And of course doctors are some of the privileged few who can afford EVs. Average GP salary 269K. Specialist????.
Regards PhilipA

The school my mum used to teach at used to have more than one lc200 Sahara and disco 5 plus more than one HSV in the car parks. Most students would be from the lower income homes.
So there are a ton of people out there that can justify $80,000 for a car.

If you could fit a bull bar to one. I would seriously think about buying one. And my wage is way less than that.

[Eevo]

So True, Lots of People run out of Petrol now ,

yes, difference is, takes 2min to put fuel in a car. but several hours to charge an EV, even if its not a full charge.

[scarry]

I've been surprised at how many EV charging points I've noticed while travelling in NQ. I didn't realize so many were around. They have been pairs of 7Kw chargers.

Did you see anyone actually using them?

[goingbush]

yes, difference is, takes 2min to put fuel in a car. but several hours to charge an EV, even if its not a full charge.

so what, the point is you charge at home whilst your sleeping.

If someone invented a system that produced petrol or diesel from elements in the atmosphere collected on rooftop panels, that could be installed at home for $5000 and filled your car's fuel tank a drop at a time and took 6 hours to fill your tank , people would make it a priority to save up $5000 and install the system asap. no one would be complaining about the fill times.

[DiscoMick]

The NQ EV network is obviously intended to enable tourists to travel up the coast for holidays, so that's good.

[Eevo]

so what, the point is you charge at home whilst your sleeping.

my comment was in reference to what happens when you run out of juice

[W&KO]

Did you see anyone actually using them?

I go to townsville regularly formwork, there are two charge points on Palmer St.....never seen a car hooked up. Thing is it’s a busy little street at night that has two car parks empty.

[scarry]

I go to townsville regularly formwork, there are two charge points on Palmer St.....never seen a car hooked up. Thing is it’s a busy little street at night that has two car parks empty.

There is two at Sirromet wines,never seen anyone use them either.

That’s why I put up the question,no answer probably means no.

So if they are not being used,the question is why bother with them?

They definitely are not commercially viable,at the moment,and won’t be for many years.


EV sales in this country are not increasing at all,for many reasons,and probably won’t in the forseable future.

[W&KO]

There is two at Sirromet wines,never seen anyone use them either.

That’s why I put up the question,no answer probably means no.

So if they are not being used,the question is why bother with them?

They definitely are not commercially viable,at the moment,and won’t be for many years.


EV sales in this country are not increasing at all,for many reasons,and probably won’t in the forseable future.

I’m guessing they get used every now and than....charge points in the are tax payer or rates payer funded and probably have a ridiculous ROI.

[Homestar]

I go to townsville regularly formwork, there are two charge points on Palmer St.....never seen a car hooked up. Thing is it’s a busy little street at night that has two car parks empty.

You should park there, grab a lead and throw one end in the boot and plug it it - you'd get to use the carpark and everyone would think yo u are just charging your car. [biggrin]

[turps]

You should park there, grab a lead and throw one end in the boot and plug it it - you'd get to use the carpark and everyone would think yo u are just charging your car. [biggrin]

Make a small transformer and keep the fridge powered while shopping.

[Tombie]

so what, the point is you charge at home whilst your sleeping.

If someone invented a system that produced petrol or diesel from elements in the atmosphere collected on rooftop panels, that could be installed at home for $5000 and filled your car's fuel tank a drop at a time and took 6 hours to fill your tank , people would make it a priority to save up $5000 and install the system asap. no one would be complaining about the fill times.

Agree people would optimise opportunity. What happens when you go beyond a standard 'fill'?... Then the whole thing (currently) becomes silly and inconvenient.
The fact is that the 'home fuel generator' would then cause the closure of many fueling facilities which would then cause further inconvenience for motorists and a hike in prices.

Even Sales reps and delivery guys can run up to 2 tanks of 'energy' a day. Sitting around waiting 6 hours before heading out again isnt going to do anyone any favours.
Factor in battery degredation and those guys will be pulling batteries out every 1-2 years.

We're now eyeing off the Rivian as an option - it has enough range to make a trip to Adelaide viable, will then need several hours on a charger to return home though - so currently the ICE vehicle would do the run unless we planned an overnighter. Imagine the charges a hotel or park is going to slug to charge such units in the future - will make the accomodation twice the price!

The big kicker will be how the government will recoupe lost fuel excise. No-one has spoken of this in parliament to this date. And they wont be giving up a revenue stream any time soon.

[Eevo]

The big kicker will be how the government will recoupe lost fuel excise. No-one has spoken of this in parliament to this date. And they wont be giving up a revenue stream any time soon.

i'm surprised there has not been more discussion on this.

[NavyDiver]

Agree people would optimise opportunity. What happens when you go beyond a standard 'fill'?... Then the whole thing (currently) becomes silly and inconvenient.
The fact is that the 'home fuel generator' would then cause the closure of many fueling facilities which would then cause further inconvenience for motorists and a hike in prices.

Even Sales reps and delivery guys can run up to 2 tanks of 'energy' a day. Sitting around waiting 6 hours before heading out again isnt going to do anyone any favours.
Factor in battery degredation and those guys will be pulling batteries out every 1-2 years.

We're now eyeing off the Rivian as an option - it has enough range to make a trip to Adelaide viable, will then need several hours on a charger to return home though - so currently the ICE vehicle would do the run unless we planned an overnighter. Imagine the charges a hotel or park is going to slug to charge such units in the future - will make the accommodation twice the price!

The big kicker will be how the government will recoupe lost fuel excise. No-one has spoken of this in parliament to this date. And they wont be giving up a revenue stream any time soon.

Batteries have a life of 10 years plus, cost of filling up 2 10KWh batteries I have at work for a UPS is at above 8% efficiency (or free from solar pv ) about 30 cents per kwh or roughly $6 for me if (and it never happens ) I took all the power to charge from the grid to empty batteries. Hotels charging my car or electric motor bike ( I have neither yet[thumbsupbig]) would be hard pressed to try doubling prices for allowing me to have a few $ of electricity.

The fuel excise is a minor tax adjustment issue. Those sods get most of my money no matter what we do[biggrin]


EV Charging From Grid Cheaper And Greener Than From A Home Battery (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/charging-ev-battery-grid/)

Have you had a look at Batteries – Lithium Ion Battery Test Centre (http://batterytestcentre.com.au/batteries/)

[Tombie]

Batteries have a life of 10 years plus, cost of filling up 2 10KWh batteries I have at work for a UPS is at above 8% efficiency (or free from solar pv ) about 30 cents per kwh or roughly $6 for me if (and it never happens ) I took all the power to charge from the grid to empty batteries. Hotels charging my car or electric motor bike ( I have neither yet[thumbsupbig]) would be hard pressed to try doubling prices for allowing me to have a few $ of electricity.

The fuel excise is a minor tax adjustment issue. Those sods get most of my money no matter what we do[biggrin]


EV Charging From Grid Cheaper And Greener Than From A Home Battery (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/charging-ev-battery-grid/)

Have you had a look at Batteries – Lithium Ion Battery Test Centre (http://batterytestcentre.com.au/batteries/)

Fuel excise will be a MAJOR tax adjustment issue [smilebigeye]

Using the data provided by Tesla - their cells lose approximately ~2% capacity per year of normal use. most are down ~10% by 3 years. Thats significant for an average use vehicle.

And never underestimate the power of the almighty dollar - in the USA they're now charging for you to air up tyres! $1.50 a pop.

Once Australia has no longer got access to Coal etc and we are renewables and battery based the rebates on those will go also, then watch power prices lurch forward again.
At the same time, fuel consumption will begin a sharp decline, and prices will rise to maintain profit margins.

Its going to be an interesting ride.

[scarry]

i'm surprised there has not been more discussion on this.

I brought it up a while ago on here.

It’s easy to sort,just start with increasing the rego for EV’s.

Now that would go down well with some,but ATM,they are getting a free ride,everyone else is paying for them.

The only real fair way,as fuel excise is a user pays tax,is to monitor mileage,so it’s definitely a difficult one.

[scarry]

Hotels charging my car or electric motor bike ( I have neither yet[thumbsupbig]) would be hard pressed to try doubling prices for allowing me to have a few $ of electricity.

They are going to have to charge for it,it isn’t going to be free or some discounted rate.

I presume you now pay for fuel at the bowser,no difference.

For a start there are HUGE infrastructure costs.

Ev’s Need a huge amount of power to recharge.

And don’t think a motel will use solar,there is no way it will provide anything like enough power to charge a couple of EV’s,yet alone many.

[goingbush]

They are going to have to charge for it,it isn’t going to be free or some discounted rate.

I presume you now pay for fuel at the bowser,no difference.

For a start there are HUGE infrastructure costs.

Ev’s Need a huge amount of power to recharge.

And don’t think a motel will use solar,there is no way it will provide anything like enough power to charge a couple of EV’s,yet alone many.

The Infrastructure is already there, plug into any powerpoint.

The 5Kw solar on my house has more than enough electricity to charge mine, & I only need to charge once every two or 3 days. (16 Amp circuit) Done 9650km now since I got it on the road , every km powered by the sun. still have credits on the electricity bill except when the Pool heat pump is running. (32 Amp circuit). Never used a public charge point except to see if it would actually work. (Tesla destination charger at a local winery)

[Tombie]

The Infrastructure is already there, plug into any powerpoint.

The 5Kw solar on my house has more than enough electricity to charge mine, & I only need to charge once every two or 3 days. (16 Amp circuit) Done 9650km now since I got it on the road , every km powered by the sun. still have credits on the electricity bill except when the Pool heat pump is running. (32 Amp circuit). Never used a public charge point except to see if it would actually work. (Tesla destination charger as a local winery)

It’s not there though - most Caravan parks etc are limited to a total current draw and a heap of EVs will quickly exceed supply. So upgrades will be needed.

Your application is a bit unique. It’s not a daily, it’s not used continually. And your journeys are planned to fit within its capability else you use another vehicle.

As an example - if you can jump in it, drive to Melrose and home again stopping for simple 10 minute stops - I’ll be all ears.

Note: I’d happily have an old series with EV as an around Whyalla runabout, it would never go anywhere else though as even a run to the nearby lighthouse would see it stranded.

[vnx205]

.... ....
Never used a public charge point except to see if it would actually work. (Tesla destination charger at a local winery)

I have seen some creative excuses for visiting a winery, but that one would have to be the most imaginative one yet.

"I only went to the winery to see if their charging point worked." :) :D

That ranks up there with the elderly couple who claimed they only drank as much wine as they did because they were collecting the corks for craft activities at their grandchild's preschool. (Of course that excuse no longer works with screw top wine bottles. )

[vnx205]

I brought it up a while ago on here.

It’s easy to sort,just start with increasing the rego for EV’s.

Now that would go down well with some,but ATM,they are getting a free ride,everyone else is paying for them.

The only real fair way,as fuel excise is a user pays tax,is to monitor mileage,so it’s definitely a difficult one.

There is an argument that rego should be cheap and fuel (or energy) should be dear so that there is an incentive to use the private car less or to use a more efficient one.

If rego is dear and fuel is cheap, you don't save much by using public transport instead f your car.

[scarry]

The Infrastructure is already there, plug into any powerpoint.

The 5Kw solar on my house has more than enough electricity to charge mine, & I only need to charge once every two or 3 days. (16 Amp circuit) Done 9650km now since I got it on the road , every km powered by the sun. still have credits on the electricity bill except when the Pool heat pump is running. (32 Amp circuit). Never used a public charge point except to see if it would actually work. (Tesla destination charger at a local winery)

Tombie is spot on,your situation would be similar to a very small minority of people.

Yours has done around 10 000 km in how long?

Many do upwards of 30 000km annually,with company vehicles doing double that.

Don’t get me wrong,EV’s are great,but in their current form don’t suit many.

And just imagine the upgrades for a 30 room motel,that would equate to 30 10 KW AC units running flat out for 6 or more hours each.Thats about 350 amps added to the normal everyday load.Then there is the huge but short load of fast chargers,drawing around 50 Amps each.

A huge amount of power.

[scarry]

There is an argument that rego should be cheap and fuel (or energy) should be dear so that there is an incentive to use the private car less or to use a more efficient one.

If rego is dear and fuel is cheap, you don't save much by using public transport instead f your car.

But where that falls down is if energy,such as fuel, is expensive,that puts up inflation.
Everything goes up.

Maybe put fuel up just for domestic use,but any politician that said that wouldn’t last long.

As it is businesses don’t pay the GST on fuel,so effectively get it cheaper than the public.

[vnx205]

Another problem is that expensive fuel further disadvantages people who live in regional or remote areas. They often don't have the option of public transport and they already have big fuel bills because of the distances they have to travel.

[DiscoMick]

Charging is easily sorted - just get a Chargefox account by downloading the ap.

Home - Chargefox (https://www.chargefox.com/)

Average annual vehicle travel is about 13,000 kms, not 30,000.

[turps]

Charging is easily sorted - just get a Chargefox account by downloading the ap.

Home - Chargefox (https://www.chargefox.com/)

Average annual vehicle travel is about 13,000 kms, not 30,000.

I’m so not average. But an EV vehicle with decent lights and a bull bar doesn’t exist Ute.

[NavyDiver]

They are going to have to charge for it,it isn’t going to be free or some discounted rate.

I presume you now pay for fuel at the bowser,no difference.

For a start there are HUGE infrastructure costs.

Ev’s Need a huge amount of power to recharge.

And don’t think a motel will use solar,there is no way it will provide anything like enough power to charge a couple of EV’s,yet alone many.

Not sure where you got the advice "Ev’s Need a huge amount of power to recharge." There is a small loss in converting to Dc and charging but the total battery capacity of any EV less any residual voltage as no one is going to be zero deliberately, is very close to the power needed to charge. Maths and clear economic cost saving comparing diesel for my D3 compared to the power and cost of that power to run it as a EV. Not suggesting I should not pay for power I use. I know for a fact I paid for the solar panels I have so there is a cost even for the sunshine I use[thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

I’m so not average. But an EV vehicle with decent lights and a bull bar doesn’t exist Ute.
Yet we know some one who has such a beast [biggrin]

[turps]

Yet we know some one who has such a beast [biggrin]

Is that the old series landy?
I think I need more creature comforts in my old age.

[scarry]

Average annual vehicle travel is about 13,000 kms, not 30,000.

Where does that figure come from?

Maybe thats privately owned vehicles only?

If it is,thats not a good average,as it doesn't take into consideration company and commercial vehicles,which generally do huge mileage.

[goingbush]

It’s not there though - most Caravan parks etc are limited to a total current draw and a heap of EVs will quickly exceed supply. So upgrades will be needed.

Your application is a bit unique. It’s not a daily, it’s not used continually. And your journeys are planned to fit within its capability else you use another vehicle.

As an example - if you can jump in it, drive to Melrose and home again stopping for simple 10 minute stops - I’ll be all ears.

Note: I’d happily have an old series with EV as an around Whyalla runabout, it would never go anywhere else though as even a run to the nearby lighthouse would see it stranded.

Certainly is my Daily Driver, rain hail or shine, Summer and Winter, its too convenient to use and too much fun not to drive the only days it does not get driven are when were away on long trips in the Iveco towing the Van, I'll convert that to EV when 1000km batteries are cheap. We do have another car , My wifes Renault Captur , I last put petrol in it 6 months ago and its still full.

Longest regular round trip I do is 55km once a week but usually I average about 25 km a day.

[JDNSW]

I drove 958km today, one stop of ten minutes. Care to nominate a suitable EV? (to compare to my current ride, need adequate ground clearance to get into my home, seat nine, tow at least 2500kg, cost less than $25,000)

[goingbush]

Not sure where you got the advice "Ev’s Need a huge amount of power to recharge." There is a small loss in converting to Dc and charging but the total battery capacity of any EV less any residual voltage as no one is going to be zero deliberately, is very close to the power needed to charge. Maths and clear economic cost saving comparing diesel for my D3 compared to the power and cost of that power to run it as a EV. Not suggesting I should not pay for power I use. I know for a fact I paid for the solar panels I have so there is a cost even for the sunshine I use[thumbsupbig]

yes, my Landy has 28kwh of battery , over the last 12 months it has averaged 32kwh per 100km . That is taken from a Kwh meter I installed on the shed sub board, so includes all losses in the charger and cabling ( heat ) , so is a true figure. The power meter on the car suggest consumption is 30kwh per 100km . My BMS is set to stop the car at 80% Depth of Discharge, going past that is pointless as charge / discharge is a bell curve you might get 10 more km from the remaining 20% but at risk of shortening the battery life by more than 50%. The other end of the curve I never fully charge my battery either. Realistically I get 75-80km from 28kwh before recharging. If I drove carefully in ECO mode I could easily double that range but why when I charge for free. from solar. (yes I paid for the panels )

[goingbush]

Tombie is spot on,your situation would be similar to a very small minority of people.

Yours has done around 10 000 km in how long?

Many do upwards of 30 000km annually,with company vehicles doing double that.

Don’t get me wrong,EV’s are great,but in their current form don’t suit many.

And just imagine the upgrades for a 30 room motel,that would equate to 30 10 KW AC units running flat out for 6 or more hours each.Thats about 350 amps added to the normal everyday load.Then there is the huge but short load of fast chargers,drawing around 50 Amps each.

A huge amount of power.

10,000 km since Jan 10 2017 . if my math is right about 600 days , = 17km a day.
used 3300kwh @ $0.25 (if you pay for power) = $825

The ABS state the average daily commute is 28km (city) and 38km (rural) Apparently I'm below average.

[goingbush]

I have seen some creative excuses for visiting a winery, but that one would have to be the most imaginative one yet.

"I only went to the winery to see if their charging point worked." :) :D

That ranks up there with the elderly couple who claimed they only drank as much wine as they did because they were collecting the corks for craft activities at their grandchild's preschool. (Of course that excuse no longer works with screw top wine bottles. )

It cost me $30 for a bottle of wine, I felt guilty plugging in and not spending money.

[goingbush]

I drove 958km today, one stop of ten minutes. Care to nominate a suitable EV? (to compare to my current ride, need adequate ground clearance to get into my home, seat nine, tow at least 2500kg, cost less than $25,000)

give it a few years . 5000km tech is here already just need to come down in price , and it will .

[Tombie]

Certainly is my Daily Driver, rain hail or shine, Summer and Winter, its too convenient to use and too much fun not to drive the only days it does not get driven are when were away on long trips in the Iveco towing the Van, I'll convert that to EV when 1000km batteries are cheap. We do have another car , My wifes Renault Captur , I last put petrol in it 6 months ago and its still full.

Longest regular round trip I do is 55km once a week but usually I average about 25 km a day.

See, that’s perfect for your needs.

My work driving each day is between 300km and 600km.
The vehicle is booked in for a service every 4 weeks.
We have 50+ vehicles doing this each week.

My shortest drive when not at work is perfect for your vehicle spec. Most drives will be minimum 160km. Regular runs of 850km in a day aren’t out of the norm.

[JDNSW]

It cost me $30 for a bottle of wine, I felt guilty plugging in and not spending money.

That, of course, is why they have it!

[DiscoMick]

I drove 958km today, one stop of ten minutes. Care to nominate a suitable EV? (to compare to my current ride, need adequate ground clearance to get into my home, seat nine, tow at least 2500kg, cost less than $25,000)Hyundai Kona EV. Range of about 450 kilometres. One hour to recharge to about 80%. You could do it with a two hour break for lunch and shopping while it recharges. Eight year battery warranty. Five year unlimited kilometre vehicle warranty. Petrol Konas can tow 1300kg, but Hyundai does not recommend towing with the EV version.

Kona Electric | SUVs | Hyundai Australia (https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/suvs/kona/kona-electric)

[Tombie]

Not sure where you got the advice "Ev’s Need a huge amount of power to recharge." There is a small loss in converting to Dc and charging but the total battery capacity of any EV less any residual voltage as no one is going to be zero deliberately, is very close to the power needed to charge. Maths and clear economic cost saving comparing diesel for my D3 compared to the power and cost of that power to run it as a EV. Not suggesting I should not pay for power I use. I know for a fact I paid for the solar panels I have so there is a cost even for the sunshine I use[thumbsupbig]

Simple - Rapid chargers - 50a
Now plug 50 of them in at a tourist park....

Remember the dream of everyone charging via solar is improbable - most people are driving them during the day.
And very few employers are going to happily let people plug in during work.

The maths may be ok for cost, but once distance is added I incur additional cost - I will need overnight accommodation, will lose days at work, will need to purchase the premium EV with the furthest range.
As it is a splash of diesel and off I go and more importantly home I get - no other delays or incurred expenses.

It’s not there yet - by a long shot.

[Tombie]

Hyundai Kona EV. Range of about 450 kilometres. One hour to recharge to about 80%. You could do it with a two hour break for lunch and shopping while it recharges. Eight year battery warranty. Five year unlimited kilometre vehicle warranty. Petrol Konas can tow 1300kg, but Hyundai does not recommend towing with the EV version.

Kona Electric | SUVs | Hyundai Australia (https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/suvs/kona/kona-electric)

Real world that’s not true. AC on kills it...

And who has a 2 hour pit stop for lunch? Which is now dictated in location by a power point.

That range - if we drove it to empty would have us still shy of our most common destination so 3 charges for us on a cool day with minimal AC.

That Kona is also a $50k version of a $25k vehicle.
The $25k vehicle can drive over 225,000km for the price difference.

[Tombie]

give it a few years . 5000km tech is here already just need to come down in price , and it will .

Which tech is that? What’s the weight and energy density?
What base elements are in this one?

[scarry]

Hyundai Kona EV. Range of about 450 kilometres. One hour to recharge to about 80%. You could do it with a two hour break for lunch and shopping while it recharges. Eight year battery warranty. Five year unlimited kilometre vehicle warranty. Petrol Konas can tow 1300kg, but Hyundai does not recommend towing with the EV version.

Kona Electric | SUVs | Hyundai Australia (https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/suvs/kona/kona-electric)

One hour to recharge?
Two hour break for lunch?

We often don't get time for a break at all,yet alone a 2 hour?

450KM,probably unloaded?

Towing?

The reality is its going to be a long time before any type of EV suits a tradie.

But for short trips,unloaded,not towing,and if a small to medium sedan suits,they will be fine,if have solar,and the sun is shining,even better.

Better than an ICE in this situation,depending on the initial cost of the vehicle.

[goingbush]

Which tech is that? What’s the weight and energy density?
What base elements are in this one?


Hydrogen Flow Batteries

New "refillable" battery tech could allow electric cars over 5000km range | The Driven (https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/refillable-electric-car-tech-purdue-university/)

[Homestar]

I like EV’s and I think they have a place - as a second car for commuting the 30 or 40km each day that these would do, they are perfect and I think most families could easily make one EV work but with the current cost of them, the uptake will never be there. They would need to be the same price as an ICE vehicles before they will start to sell in any numbers.

I’m the same as others here - my days are anything from 60KM a day up to 800KM a day and regular towing up to 3,000Kg although mostly 2,000kg. An EV is just not going to cut it for me or most Tradies or Sales roles.

[JDNSW]

Hyundai Kona EV. Range of about 450 kilometres. One hour to recharge to about 80%. You could do it with a two hour break for lunch and shopping while it recharges. Eight year battery warranty. Five year unlimited kilometre vehicle warranty. Petrol Konas can tow 1300kg, but Hyundai does not recommend towing with the EV version.

Kona Electric | SUVs | Hyundai Australia (https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/suvs/kona/kona-electric)

Barely possible - but two hours added to over ten hours actual driving makes it into a twelve hour day. And I'm not sure the Kona has the number of seats and ground clearance needed, and there is the minor matter of cost. Doing the shopping in the middle of the day rather than at the end would mean needing a refrigerator rather than an esky, and raises the question - I don't remember seeing a grocery store at Gillenbah where I stopped for lunch (or a charger - I assume there is one in Narrandera? But is it next door to Aldi?

I should mention that on my way south I dropped in on Goingbush and had a look at his EV Lightweight, and he even let me drive it (comes with a very friendly dog to keep the driver in line!). Drives well, but I suspect that the intermediate shaft in the transfer case may be slightly worn, allowing the gears to be slightly out of perfect mesh - or maybe the absence of other noise makes the gear noise more noticeable.

As is clear from the pictures, the workmanship on the conversion is outstanding.

[Chops]

There is an argument that rego should be cheap and fuel (or energy) should be dear so that there is an incentive to use the private car less or to use a more efficient one.

If rego is dear and fuel is cheap, you don't save much by using public transport instead f your car.

To add to this, I lived in Melbourne (Narre Warren) and working in Clayton, I was happy to either ride the pushy to the station, or drive if it was raining hard, catch the train, and ride to work.
It was cost prohibitive as it was cheaper and a damn site more comfortable sitting in the car (Defender) which is already owned and needed anyway.

I think with what they charge for tickets, with a train car full of crappy seats and smelly people, they do well to get anyone to use the public system.

[NavyDiver]

From racetrack to roads: Carmakers vie for electric supremacy | News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/racetrack-roads-carmakers-vie-electric-supremacy-191124062948350.html)

We all have ABS and so much more from racing. Battery innovations mentioned has a car maker attached (https://lucidmotors.com/) [biggrin]

Watch a few minutes of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72l5sm_0Jg

[Tombie]

Pulled the pin and signed up for an EV last night.
Purchase order and deposit paid.
Delivery 2021 [emoji2957]

Tri-motor, 800km range, polarising looks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191124/060640ef4f908c865bf3130978507209.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191124/b7110faf2cc5804191dcef1db597a96f.plist

[NavyDiver]

Pulled the pin and signed up for an EV last night.
Purchase order and deposit paid.
Delivery 2021 [emoji2957]

Tri-motor, 800km range, polarising looks.

You could drive with My D3 any day [thumbsupbig] It looks amazing. Cannot wait to hear of your fun

[Chops]

Wow, top stuff Mike,, please keep us informed with this. I quite like the look of them too.

When you look at what we grew up with, ie “Thunderbirds” and Flash Gordon and the likes, the Jetsons etc etc etc,,, we were always bound to head down this path.

[loanrangie]

Tombie you are a bit early for april fools.

[Tombie]

Tombie you are a bit early for april fools.

[biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

Hey why not... Its only money and I have 2 years before delivery.

[Eevo]

2 years before delivery.

he's on a roll today! [bigrolf]

[Tombie]

Yeah, 2021 delivery.

Really not that far away. It took 8 months for our 90 to deliver.

[loanrangie]

[biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

Hey why not... Its only money and I have 2 years before delivery.

Hopefully they might finish the design by then [bigwhistle].

[goingbush]

Congrats for jumping in at the deep end Tombie,



AFIK If its over 4500kg gvm, It does not have to comply with the same namby pamby rules as passenger cars . I'd call the design done and dusted.

At 5500kg GVM, (2750 kerb weight) the Iveco 4x4 doesn't need to comply, even if you have it plated at 4495kg and register it as a DC Ute , as I have done.

If someone walks out in front of my car , **** em. Actually I hit a drunk pedestrian and his cranium put a fair dent in my '63 Falcon , hope he had a headache for weeks. Long live Darwinisim.

[Tombie]

Thanks mate.

As I had posted, a few boxes needed ticking before an EV could work for us.

Tesla superchargers (nothing beats their charge capacity atm) and range being the 2 most significant.

This vehicle will be able to do the main run we need and then a quick Supercharge and home we go. Failing that we can go via the Clare valley and top up quickly there also.

I like the polarising look of the thing. Function over form and the geometric profile is in my eye appealing.

The big question is what type of wrap design we put in it [emoji41]

[Eevo]

i have a question. 4 wheels and 3 motors. how does that work?

[goingbush]

i have a question. 4 wheels and 3 motors. how does that work?

One motor for each rear wheel, one motor and a diff for the front wheels.

[Eevo]

One motor for each rear wheel, one motor and a diff for the front wheels.

cheers.

[scarry]

The big question is what type of wrap design we put in it [emoji41]

I was also wondering what type of front bar would look the best?

Need somewhere to mount the spotties,and the roos are not going to hear you coming,thats for sure.

At least you shouldn't have to worry about a larger fuel tank,and a swing out rear carrier.[biggrin][bighmmm]

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, 2021 delivery.

Really not that far away. It took 8 months for our 90 to deliver.Is it right it's only $100 to express an interest?

[Tombie]

Is it right it's only $100 to express an interest?

$100 USD reserves your order.


So far they’ve taken over $8B usd in orders for it.

[NavyDiver]

After looking at all the $ being invested in batteries by BMW and Merc I had a quick look and was surprised to see Merc selling a EQC electric now. It even has a price guide for the base model. Price difference between states is WOW. WA gets ripped off in my 10second price check

keep calm you've been ripped off[tonguewink]

Overseas Disclaimer (https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/models/eqc/leasing-and-offers/overseas-disclaimer.module.html)

[cripesamighty]

Now you know why so many folk around here buy new and second-hand cars from interstate and then ship them back to WA. Somethimes it works out a lot cheaper!

[manic]

Yeah, 2021 delivery.

Really not that far away. It took 8 months for our 90 to deliver.Website says production begins late 2022 for tri motor. US will be up first, AU deliveries could be much later!

The model 3 rolled off production lines in June 2017. First Aus delivery was near enough Sept 2019!!

[Tombie]

Website says production begins late 2022 for tri motor. US will be up first, AU deliveries could be much later!

The model 3 rolled off production lines in June 2017. First Aus delivery was near enough Sept 2019!!

Happy to wait. In the meantime the D4 keeps me smiling.

[scarry]

I'll just leave this here[bighmmm]

https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16219307/640/16219307.jpg (https://picturepush.com/public/16219307)

[Tombie]

Hahaha - The roof already has a built in light bar..[emoji2957]

[DiscoMick]

If that's a truck, what's it designed to carry?

[scarry]

If that's a truck, what's it designed to carry?

Anything and everything,even bags of goats poo[bigrolf]

[Homestar]

There’s some sort of quad bike or something you are supposed to be able to buy to go in the back, but it does actually have a decent cargo area.

[Eevo]

If that's a truck, what's it designed to carry?

hopes and dreams.

[Tombie]

If that's a truck, what's it designed to carry?

It can tow 6.5t the tray area is 198cm long

Those lines are tie down rails... full air suspension.

I’d say it will carry plenty.

[Tombie]

There’s some sort of quad bike or something you are supposed to be able to buy to go in the back, but it does actually have a decent cargo area.

The Tesla quad [emoji41]

[ozscott]

In theory it sounds good (but very heavy off road for a 4 wheel dual axle).

Let's see what it ends up being. Can't see it remaining that heavy. For eg it's most unlikely to comply with crash testing re crumple zones in its current exo skeleton SS format.

Cheers

[JDNSW]

............. For eg it's most unlikely to comply with crash testing re crumple zones in its current exo skeleton SS format.

Cheers

Its GVM means that it is not classified as a "passenger vehicle", and crash testing and crumple zones are not required, any more than for other US style pickups.

[Geedublya]

There are requirements for wipers and mirrors though. It will have the same problem as the other US pickups in urban areas, very difficult to park anywhere. Will be fine outside of cities.

[ozscott]

Its GVM means that it is not classified as a "passenger vehicle", and crash testing and crumple zones are not required, any more than for other US style pickups.I just saw an article in Wheels Mag. They too think it will have to comply but they may not have taken into account the different class.

Telsa Cybertruck taking orders on unrealistic design - Opinion (https://www.whichcar.com.au/opinion/telsa-taking-orders-for-unrealistic-cybertruck)

They also point out lack of mirrors, sharp edges and protruding wheels.

Clearly it's an early concept vehicle so critiques need to take that into account.

Cheers

[Tombie]

There are requirements for wipers and mirrors though. It will have the same problem as the other US pickups in urban areas, very difficult to park anywhere. Will be fine outside of cities.

People just need to learn to drive (not aimed at you).
And be willing to walk that little bit to the shop door.

My old 110 was higher than any high rise car park and turned like the QEII having a slack day.

Still didn’t stop me going to the shops.


As for mirrors, vehicles are being given exemptions as tech matures; it’s possible an all round camera system will become the next thing.

[ozscott]

People just need to learn to drive (not aimed at you).

And be willing to walk that little bit to the shop door.

My old 110 was higher than any high rise car park and turned like the QEII having a slack day.

Still didn’t stop me going to the shops.Mike you can drive through the shop with this beast.

Cheers

[JDNSW]

Yes - it will be interesting to see what changes are made along the way.

[Tombie]

Yes - it will be interesting to see what changes are made along the way.

Law makers are already struggling to keep up with technology.

Recently I’ve seen a big increase in people using watches to control functions of phones in cars, answer message etc. that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Mirror cameras, digital rear view mirrors etc are far more efficient and effective. The Cybertruck (and all Tesla) has a 360 camera set up and is more aware of vehicles around it than a normal vehicle.

[JDNSW]

As you say - good example is my nephew is having issues trying to fit rear view cameras to the caravan conversion he is doing on a bus at the moment. They are not (yet?) a legal substitute for cameras (in NSW at least).

[austastar]

Mirror cameras, digital rear view mirrors etc are far more efficient and effective.
Hi,
I have a Saftey Dave rear camera to see what is directly behind me.
It works brilliantly most of the time, but has problems with some lighting conditions.
I turn it off at night, even on the lowest screen brightness it is too bright. A less line of sight screen position may solve this one.
A low rear sun dazzles the camera turning every thing at ground level too dark to see.
Bright white clouds have a similar effect. Moving the camera to a higher mounting point may solve this one.
Cheers

[JDNSW]

What is it like after a few hundred kilometres of dusty or muddy road?

[PhilipA]

I have to say based on previous Elon musk performance with the price of the Model 3 , I am pretty sceptical of what the price will be.

The Model 3 was touted as a USD30K car and only in the last few months has a stripper 30K model even been available.
I read recently that the average price of a Model 3 is USD 50K.

Whether this is from demand or what they build and then force customers into I do not know, but the tenor of the article I read is that it is production driven, and that Tesla makes nothing and may lose money on a 30K Model3.

And this was an article by a Tesla Fan boy site.

Regards PhilipA
You have to remember that Teslas in the USA anyway are most commonly a 5th car according to research a couple of years ago. What better way to show your AWOKEness that by also having a ute as well as your F150 etc etc .

[Tombie]

What is it like after a few hundred kilometres of dusty or muddy road?

No worse than your windows after the same drive.

Why couldn’t that be solved by an auto washer [emoji41]

[DiscoMick]

What is it like after a few hundred kilometres of dusty or muddy road?My reversing camera was fine after 3000 Ks of outback Queensland dust, just needed a quick wash.

[Chops]

What is it like after a few hundred kilometres of dusty or muddy road?

I have more problems with a resident spider and his or her web [bighmmm][bigwhistle]

[JDNSW]

The issue with cameras is likely to be that they are right at the rear of the vehicle and set low, where the mirrors are higher and further forward. These days when I get to the bitumen, the inside mirror is useless because of the dust, but the side mirrors are perfectly usable.

[austastar]

What is it like after a few hundred kilometres of dusty or muddy road?Hi,
I only cleaned the glass a few times in 16,000km on the last trip. It is just above the towball and pointing down a bit to put the horizon near the top of the screen.
Cheers

[DiscoMick]

Hi,
I only cleaned the glass a few times in 16,000km on the last trip. It is just above the towball and pointing down a bit to put the horizon near the top of the screen.
CheersSame with mine. Just needs a wipe/wash. Ours survived clouds of dust and rocks out around Gregory, Lawn Hill and across the Savannah Way to Coen.

[p38arover]

A line-up of cars waiting for a charger on Thanksgiving weekend in the USA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1uFudf37JU

Day 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55N2Bo3Zek

[Eevo]

holy crap!

[NavyDiver]

I know many of us will know Cummins is one of the biggest Diesel engine builders in the world. Buses, Trucks, trains and big gen sets.


"Cummings $500M cash investment in electrification 2017-2020" (p49 https://investor.cummins.com/static-files/8871dd08-8724-47ee-bfd6-c3db427673ad )

The 2017 investment is topped to “New Tech$0.6” (Billion) on Page 46 of the Cummins Analyst Day November 21- 2019 (link above)



That they have invested over a billion to be a market leader in Hydrogen fuel cells and batteries is no real surprise.

[Homestar]

A line-up of cars waiting for a charger on Thanksgiving weekend in the USA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1uFudf37JU

Day 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55N2Bo3Zek

Forgive me if I’ve missed something - why are they all lined up like that? Don’t the owners charge them at home or is this some sort of stop half way from somewhere to somewhere else where EV’s need to recharge to make it home? No power in the ‘burbs at the moment? I Don’t quite get it sorry.

[p38arover]

Probably on a trip somewhere. It's at San Luis Obispo on Hwy 101 halfway between San Jose and LA.

[scarry]

Forgive me if I’ve missed something - why are they all lined up like that? Don’t the owners charge them at home or is this some sort of stop half way from somewhere to somewhere else where EV’s need to recharge to make it home? No power in the ‘burbs at the moment? I Don’t quite get it sorry.

:Rolling:

It’s just the reality of owning an EV.......[bighmmm]

[Eevo]

this some sort of stop half way from somewhere to somewhere else where EV’s need to recharge to make it home?


i assumed it was this. and thanksgiving weeeknd everyone is on the road.

[Homestar]

So, infrastructure not keeping pace with the uptake of the tech. Surprise surprise. Can’t wait to see what the Sydney to Melbourne run looks like in a few years - same thing I suppose and maybe a new reality we need to get used to at some point.

[gavinwibrow]

So, infrastructure not keeping pace with the uptake of the tech. Surprise surprise. Can’t wait to see what the Sydney to Melbourne run looks like in a few years - same thing I suppose and maybe a new reality we need to get used to at some point.

I'm sure you have similar elsewhere, but the RACWA put in a number of recharging stations between Perth and the South West some time ago = Electric Highway if I recall correctly.

I hear on the grapevine (bad/unintended pun for the Margaret River Region) that they are quite well used (and free for the time being).

[Homestar]

I have no doubt they are, but what happens when 10 times the amount of people decide they want an EV? This is one of my concerns regarding the tech - how the infrastructure will keep up - early signs aren’t good by the look of it.

And I’m not anti EV by the way, just noting that this will be a major hurdle I think.

[350RRC]

So, infrastructure not keeping pace with the uptake of the tech. Surprise surprise. Can’t wait to see what the Sydney to Melbourne run looks like in a few years - same thing I suppose and maybe a new reality we need to get used to at some point.

Sydney to Melby will be fine, its downhill looking at the map. [thumbsupbig]

DL

[goingbush]

Gav, you better get yourself one of them ex Coates Kubota generators and mount it on the back of the 101 , or in the case of the photo, a box of batteries and an inverter.


Going to be a nice little earner

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/09/aaa-charging-truck.png

[Homestar]

Waaaaay ahead of you mate - have a 12KVA Kubota Gen outside with a measly 26,000 hours on it - barely run in... 😇 (It actually starts and runs well and still takes full load, but is a tad smokey when pushed hard, but not noticeable at lighter loads). Would fit in the back of the 101 easy as. 👍. Couple of stickers noting my ‘green’ credentials and I’ll be set! 😆

If I didn’t take it on such long trips, I’d love to covert the 101 to EV, would put a huge motor in it as the driveline would take it easy as - heaps of room low down for batteries giving it a low centre of gravity... Maybe one day. 👍

[cripesamighty]

Never thought of that. I have a spare 6KVA Honda generator lying around doing nothing at the moment!

[ozscott]

Waaaaay ahead of you mate - have a 12KVA Kubota Gen outside with a measly 26,000 hours on it - barely run in... [emoji56] (It actually starts and runs well and still takes full load, but is a tad smokey when pushed hard, but not noticeable at lighter loads). Would fit in the back of the 101 easy as. [emoji106]. Couple of stickers noting my ‘green’ credentials and I’ll be set! [emoji38]

If I didn’t take it on such long trips, I’d love to covert the 101 to EV, would put a huge motor in it as the driveline would take it easy as - heaps of room low down for batteries giving it a low centre of gravity... Maybe one day. [emoji106][emoji1787][emoji1787]diesel powered leccy power saving the planet. Much like coal power stations powering leccy cars saving the planet, but more focused [emoji1787].

Cheers

[Eevo]

who pays for the EV infrastructure and the land rent? is that part of the purchase price?

[DiscoMick]

They are businesses. Customers pay their bills.

[Eevo]

They are businesses. Customers pay their bills.

explain that more pplease as i dont understand.

the EV charging station is a 3rd party business? like a service station except for EV's?
the cost of rent would be more than the cost of electricity

[Tombie]

They are businesses. Customers pay their bills.

Tesla Superchargers are free to Tesla purchasers.
I do believe they charge for others.

[DiscoMick]

Tesla charging stations charge Teslas free under a charging deal. Other vehicle owners pay. There are companies with charging schemes. It's a business. Did you think it was free?

[Eevo]

Did you think it was free?

i wasnt sure, thats why i asked.

im having trouble seeing that business (charging staions) being profitable due to the cost of rent + electricity which would have to be passed onto the customer.

[350RRC]

i wasnt sure, thats why i asked.

im having trouble seeing that business (charging staions) being profitable due to the cost of rent + electricity which would have to be passed onto the customer.

Maybe the 'landlords' of where these charging stations are sited see an earn in passing trade being stuck there charging up and have come to an arrangement of some sort.

DL

[turps]

Tesla charging stations charge Teslas free under a charging deal. Other vehicle owners pay. There are companies with charging schemes. It's a business. Did you think it was free?

Not all Tesla charging is free to all Tesla owners. I am sure your right for Tesla S and Tesla X and maybe the roadster. But I think the Tesla 3 its back to a user pays.

Have a mate with a Tesla 3. It’s stupid fast for a little car.

[NavyDiver]

OS is of little interest, Here is[thumbsupbig]
In Vic
Free is relative as some one always has to pay. User pays suits me

Chargefox charges into NSW with new ultra-rapid EV chargers in SydneyChargefox charges into NSW with new ultra-rapid EV chargers in Sydney - techAU (https://techau.com.au/chargefox-charges-into-nsw-with-new-ultra-rapid-ev-chargers-in-sydney/)

[rick130]

And FWIW there's little profit in fuel.
Service stations make their money from selling your food and drink, particularly if they have hot food, e.g. fried food take away.

Quite a few years ago an old costumer who ran a road house walled our if his office grumbling.
I asked Martin what was up?
He said that if a customer bought $20 worth of fuel on a credit card he lost $0.20 on the transaction

[scarry]

And FWIW there's little profit in fuel.
Service stations make their money from selling your food and drink, particularly if they have hot food, e.g. fried food take away.

Quite a few years ago an old costumer who ran a road house walled our if his office grumbling.
I asked Martin what was up?
He said that if a customer bought $20 worth of fuel on a credit card he lost $0.20 on the transaction

Profit in fuel isn’t the greatest,at times,but they still do very well out of it.

I know a guy who has 13 garages ATM,and he does very well out of the fuel sales.Plus the addition of the other stuff.

Years ago profits were much lower,but times have changed.

[p38arover]

Quite a few years ago an old costumer who ran a road house walled our if his office grumbling.

So many questions

Why would a costumer run a roadhouse, not a fancy dress store?

Please explain [B]blue [bigwhistle]

[Homestar]

OS is of little interest, Here is[thumbsupbig]
In Vic
Free is relative as some one always has to pay. User pays suits me

Chargefox charges into NSW with new ultra-rapid EV chargers in SydneyChargefox charges into NSW with new ultra-rapid EV chargers in Sydney - techAU (https://techau.com.au/chargefox-charges-into-nsw-with-new-ultra-rapid-ev-chargers-in-sydney/)

As an Electrician, I find the KW output he chargers a little confusing to be honest - as per this article, it says up to 350KW for supported vehicles - let’s say we’re talking a Tesla here (we aren’t, but for the calculation) - they run at 375 volts DC. If this was the sort of vehicle they are talking about, that’s a current draw of over 900 amps (I=1000xP/V) where I is the current and P is the power in KW and assuming no losses and flat batteries ready and able to take that current flow - you know what sized plug and cable that would need to be!

I get this would be a peak current and that this drops as the charge comes up, but still, we’re talking about moving a massive amount of power in a short time over a consumer grade connection that has to be able to be used by anyone.

Don’t get me started on the fault currents either and how these are mitigated in the event of an issue - we’ve all seen the video of that Tesla exploding - a very real scenario if your charger’s capable of delivering nearly 1000 amps at over 350 volts - big badda boom as the Fifth Element would say.

So, what sort of current are the plugs and cables actually capable of supplying as I call BS on a hand held plug and cable delivering that sort of current or anywhere near that - anyone who’s tried to connect a 125 amp lead knows this is a struggle on you own - no way a little old lady doing her shopping could connect anything remotely capable of these sort of currents.

Assuming here that the chargers are delivering a DC current and not a 3 phase AC that is rectified on board the vehicle - happy to be corrected if that’s the case (but that’s still over 600 amps at 415 volts with a PF of 0.8...)

[rick130]

So many questions

Why would a costumer run a roadhouse, not a fancy dress store?

Please explain [B]blue [bigwhistle]Auto correct with Swype keyboard on the phone.
It'll change words once a sentence has been completed trying to correct grammar and sentence structure.

You should see some of the doozies on the work tablet!

[Eevo]

(I=1000xP/V) where I is the current and P is the power in KW and assuming no losses and flat batteries ready and able to take that current flow - you know what sized plug and cable that would need to be!



you dont need to be an Electrician. this is high school science.

[scarry]

As an Electrician, I find the KW output he chargers a little confusing to be honest - as per this article, it says up to 350KW for supported vehicles - let’s say we’re talking a Tesla here (we aren’t, but for the calculation) - they run at 375 volts DC. If this was the sort of vehicle they are talking about, that’s a current draw of over 900 amps (I=1000xP/V) where I is the current and P is the power in KW and assuming no losses and flat batteries ready and able to take that current flow - you know what sized plug and cable that would need to be!

I get this would be a peak current and that this drops as the charge comes up, but still, we’re talking about moving a massive amount of power in a short time over a consumer grade connection that has to be able to be used by anyone.

Don’t get me started on the fault currents either and how these are mitigated in the event of an issue - we’ve all seen the video of that Tesla exploding - a very real scenario if your charger’s capable of delivering nearly 1000 amps at over 350 volts - big badda boom as the Fifth Element would say.

So, what sort of current are the plugs and cables actually capable of supplying as I call BS on a hand held plug and cable delivering that sort of current or anywhere near that - anyone who’s tried to connect a 125 amp lead knows this is a struggle on you own - no way a little old lady doing her shopping could connect anything remotely capable of these sort of currents.

Assuming here that the chargers are delivering a DC current and not a 3 phase AC that is rectified on board the vehicle - happy to be corrected if that’s the case (but that’s still over 600 amps at 415 volts with a PF of 0.8...)

Nah,you got it all wrong,just plug it into the solar at home,easy as:tease:

On a serious note,I just imagine how much power you need for 50 plus chargers at a charging station,and the cost of the set up and the cost of the power......

[Homestar]

you dont need to be an Electrician. this is high school science.

Correct but most people wouldn’t know what a KW or amp even is or what it takes to move large amounts of power - I know this because I talk to people every day about their power needs, and even Commercial and Industrial Electrical’s don’t understand a lot of this, so hows Joe Blogs supposed to? They just read this guff and thing ‘Wow, what an age we live in’ without any thought to the actual Science behind it.

[Homestar]

Auto correct with Swype keyboard on the phone.
It'll change words once a sentence has been completed trying to correct grammar and sentence structure.

You should see some of the doozies on the work tablet!

For a start I thought you may have already been at the Pub, but the post was at 9.34am so maybe a bit early - but if that’s your thing, I don’t judge you. 😆

[scarry]

Correct but most people wouldn’t know what a KW or amp even is or what it takes to move large amounts of power - I know this because I talk to people every day about their power needs, and even Commercial and Industrial Electrical’s don’t understand a lot of this, so hows Joe Blogs supposed to? They just read this guff and thing ‘Wow, what an age we live in’ without any thought to the actual Science behind it.

The average Fan Mechanic,i mean AC tech would have no friggin idea either.

But then again a good Fridgie would have it all sorted.....[bighmmm][bigrolf]

[rick130]

For a start I thought you may have already been at the Pub, but the post was at 9.34am so maybe a bit early - but if that’s your thing, I don’t judge you. 😆

But it was 5 o'clock somewhere [tonguewink]

Was trying to repair a 780kw chiller on top of a shopping mall.
The emphasis on trying...[bigwhistle]

BTW, reasonable size cables running into it, can't recall how many amps it pulls at 100% load but it's a few. [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Correct but most people wouldn’t know what a KW or amp even is or what it takes to move large amounts of power - I know this because I talk to people every day about their power needs, and even Commercial and Industrial Electrical’s don’t understand a lot of this, so hows Joe Blogs supposed to? They just read this guff and thing ‘Wow, what an age we live in’ without any thought to the actual Science behind it.I'm not an electrician, but I note Chargefox says it's 350kW chargers can deliver 400 Ks of charge in 15 minutes, which is impressive.

Australia's largest ultra-rapid EV charging network expands into New South Wales - Chargefox (https://www.chargefox.com/australias-largest-ultra-rapid-ev-charging-network-expands-into-new-south-wales/)

A wide range of home chargers are available.

All - EVSE Australia (https://evse.com.au/all/)

[Homestar]

I'm not an electrician, but I note Chargefox says it's 350kW chargers can deliver 400 Ks of charge in 15 minutes, which is impressive.

Australia's largest ultra-rapid EV charging network expands into New South Wales - Chargefox (https://www.chargefox.com/australias-largest-ultra-rapid-ev-charging-network-expands-into-new-south-wales/)

A wide range of home chargers are available.

All - EVSE Australia (https://evse.com.au/all/)

You’ve just proved my point which I thank you for, not having a go at you here - you don’t understand what 350KW is so just think the number is impressive without knowing why - my question remains - HOW does it do this through what looks like a very small cable and plug? 900 amps would blow it to bits instantly. Some fudging of the figures me thinks...

FYI - this is the sort of size cable you’d need to handle 900 amps - and this is just one of them - 500mm sq. Brown/Brown 6381Y Cable Double Insulated Power Cable (https://www.gemcable.co.uk/products/p3595/500mm-sq.-Brown/Brown-6381Y-Cable-Double-Insulated-Power-Cable/product_info.html) and you need 2. Note the cable thickness is around 38mm on its own and weighs around 5 Kg per meter, so a 3 meter lead made up of a pair of these would be 30kg - I’d like to see an elderly person plug that into their car...

[scarry]

I'm not an electrician, but I note Chargefox says it's 350kW chargers can deliver 400 Ks of charge in 15 minutes, which is impressive.

A 350KW charger,thats gonna need one hell of a charging plug,socket,and cables?

The fault current is going to be pretty high as well[bighmmm]

Not something to be used by the general public i would presume.

OOPs.didnt see Gavs post above.[biggrin]

[Homestar]

A 350KW charger,thats gonna need one hell of a charging plug,socket,and cables?

The fault current is going to be pretty high as well[bighmmm]

Not something to be used by the general public i would presume.

OOPs.didnt see Gavs post above.[biggrin]

Exactly my point. 👍

[manic]

Tesla SC is 480volt for 400v battery packs. Other manufacturers are looking at 800v battery packs!

The V3 Super Charger is capped at 250kW
Direct DC, bypassing the onboard AC/DC charger which only handles around 40 amps for home charging.

[Tombie]

Technical Details

The Chargefox site at East Village Sydney features two 350kW capable Tritium chargers, plus an additional 50kW capable charger. At an average of 20kWh/100km the 350kW chargers can deliver up to 450km of range in 15 minutes, whilst the 50kW can deliver 60km in 15 minutes.

Deceptive description - reading the above its likely 350kW/h. (Nameplate).

[DiscoMick]

You’ve just proved my point which I thank you for, not having a go at you here - you don’t understand what 350KW is so just think the number is impressive without knowing why - my question remains - HOW does it do this through what looks like a very small cable and plug? 900 amps would blow it to bits instantly. Some fudging of the figures me thinks...

FYI - this is the sort of size cable you’d need to handle 900 amps - and this is just one of them - 500mm sq. Brown/Brown 6381Y Cable Double Insulated Power Cable (https://www.gemcable.co.uk/products/p3595/500mm-sq.-Brown/Brown-6381Y-Cable-Double-Insulated-Power-Cable/product_info.html) and you need 2. Note the cable thickness is around 38mm on its own and weighs around 5 Kg per meter, so a 3 meter lead made up of a pair of these would be 30kg - I’d like to see an elderly person plug that into their car...Yes, it's very interesting. I assume it's per hour.

[manic]

You’ve just proved my point which I thank you for, not having a go at you here - you don’t understand what 350KW is so just think the number is impressive without knowing why - my question remains - HOW does it do this through what looks like a very small cable and plug? 900 amps would blow it to bits instantly. Some fudging of the figures me thinks...

FYI - this is the sort of size cable you’d need to handle 900 amps - and this is just one of them - 500mm sq. Brown/Brown 6381Y Cable Double Insulated Power Cable (https://www.gemcable.co.uk/products/p3595/500mm-sq.-Brown/Brown-6381Y-Cable-Double-Insulated-Power-Cable/product_info.html) and you need 2. Note the cable thickness is around 38mm on its own and weighs around 5 Kg per meter, so a 3 meter lead made up of a pair of these would be 30kg - I’d like to see an elderly person plug that into their car...350kW on a 480v SC is ~527 amps.

That's why they are looking at 800v packs, for faster charging at lower amps.

So with the chargeFox 350kW claim, you have to ask - at what voltage? The reality is, no EV on the market will let chargeFox put 350kW on a 400v pack. The charge rate is controlled by the car.


The best you can get right now is the Tesla supercharger V3 which will give around 380amps to the long range Model 3 . The cable to car is a short run, and they are liquid cooled - apparently! Which allows for smaller gauge.

Australia is still on V2 which is 120kW peak or ~180 amps. Minor


FAQ
Supercharging | Tesla Australia (https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/support/supercharging)

[DiscoDB]

im having trouble seeing that business (charging staions) being profitable due to the cost of rent + electricity which would have to be passed onto the customer.

Now a motel set up with charging stations could make a good profit - could even charge out rooms by the hour [emoji12]

[Eevo]

Now a motel set up with charging stations could make a good profit - could even charge out rooms by the hour [emoji12]

promote that man! now damm it!

[DiscoDB]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/6790e820c242f77efa00ea4d698cf76b.jpeg

[DiscoMick]

EV sales triple in Australia, predicted to be half new vehicle sales by 2035.

Electric vehicle sales triple in Australia as sales of combustion engine cars fall 8% | Environment | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/06/electric-vehicle-sales-triple-in-australia-as-sales-of-combustion-engine-cars-fall-8)

[Homestar]

3 times **** all is still **** all...

[Homestar]

3 times **** all is still **** all...

To clarify further - Up from 0.2% of Sales to just shy of 0.6% of Sales. Keep fighting the good fight Mick - you’ve just about convinced yourself this will save the planet. With only 3% of emissions coming from vehicles in Australia even the very fanciful half of all sales will make very little difference and when you take into account entire lifecycle emissions that number gets cut again quite substantially.

Again, not an EV hater, far from it but I do understand their limitations and how twisted some people get the facts to make the population think they are are a magic bullet to our issues.o

[Tombie]

Now a motel set up with charging stations could make a good profit - could even charge out rooms by the hour [emoji12]

That’s closely what the motels with charge stations in town do...

[Tombie]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/6790e820c242f77efa00ea4d698cf76b.jpeg

Low IQ boguns are a global phenomenon...

[DiscoMick]

To clarify further - Up from 0.2% of Sales to just shy of 0.6% of Sales. Keep fighting the good fight Mick - you’ve just about convinced yourself this will save the planet. With only 3% of emissions coming from vehicles in Australia even the very fanciful half of all sales will make very little difference and when you take into account entire lifecycle emissions that number gets cut again quite substantially.

Again, not an EV hater, far from it but I do understand their limitations and how twisted some people get the facts to make the population think they are are a magic bullet to our issues.oLast time I checked transport produced about 15% of Australia's emissions.

Emission sources | Australia State of the Environment Report (https://soe.environment.gov.au/theme/climate/topic/emission-sources#Emission_sources)

[Tombie]

Last time I checked transport produced about 15% of Australia's emissions.

Emission sources | Australia State of the Environment Report (https://soe.environment.gov.au/theme/climate/topic/emission-sources#Emission_sources)

Break it down... private etc vs Commercial (trucks etc).

It’s unlikely there will be commercial EVs hauling loads any time soon.

[DiscoMick]

This is a sensible summary of how we rate for emissions. Basically, Australia is the third largest fossil fuel exporter in the world.

Do Australia's greenhouse gas emissions account for more than 5 per cent of the global total once exports are included, as Mike Cannon-Brookes says? - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-20/fact-check-australia-carbon-emissions-fossil-fuel-exports/11645670)

[DiscoMick]

Break it down... private etc vs Commercial (trucks etc).

It’s unlikely there will be commercial EVs hauling loads any time soon.Don't be too sure. Commercial EVs are coming. In fact, Australia is exporting them.

Meanwhile…in Australia: Electric Trucks are Already a Thing (https://www.machines4u.com.au/mag/meanwhilein-australia-electric-trucks-are-already-a-thing/)

Australia's SEA Electric takes massive order for 100 electric trucks | The Driven (https://thedriven.io/2019/11/15/australias-sea-electric-takes-massive-order-for-100-electric-trucks/)

Australia Post to trial Fuso eCanter electric truck | The Driven (https://thedriven.io/2019/09/25/australia-post-to-trial-fuso-ecanter-electric-truck/amp/#aoh=15809863696575&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s)

China's BYD teams up with Macquarie to bring electric trucks to Australia | RenewEconomy (https://reneweconomy.com.au/chinas-byd-teams-up-with-macquarie-to-bring-electric-trucks-to-australia-24012/)

Electric trucks pitched as game changer for Australian market (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/electric-trucks-pitched-as-game-changer-for-australian-market-20190723-p529u7)

[Tombie]

44t on the open road will not be electric for years!
Fart box courier trucks in metro maybe.
Commercial operations will vote with their accountant.

[DiscoMick]

Electric utes are also coming.

Top electric utes coming to replace your Ford Ranger and Toyota HiLux: The electric ute revolution is coming! - Car News | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/top-electric-utes-coming-to-replace-your-ford-ranger-and-toyota-hilux-the-electric-ute)

[DiscoMick]

44t on the open road will not be electric for years!
Fart box courier trucks in metro maybe.
Commercial operations will vote with their accountant.Tesla says it will start production of its Semi in 2020 with an 800 km range. It claims to already have 2000 orders and prototypes have been tested. So we'll see.

Tesla Semi - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi)

[JDNSW]

The issues I see with electric trucks for most long distance haulage in Australia is that most trucks already operate with the maximum legal axle loading. This means that the difference in mass between the batteries + drive train and the fuel + drive train comes straight off the revenue load. And the power required for a fast charge of a B-double is so much higher than for cars that a truck terminal or recharge station will be a much more significant load on the local network.

I also do not remember seeing anything about tesla's trucks set up as B-doubles. Or, for that matter, road trains.

[Tombie]

Tesla says it will start production of its Semi in 2020 with an 800 km range. It claims to already have 2000 orders and prototypes have been tested. So we'll see.

Tesla Semi - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi)

I’m aware of all of this - 800km won’t cut it here..
And the price is insane.

[W&KO]

I’m aware of all of this - 800km won’t cut it here..
And the price is insane.

Wonder what the range would be loaded 30T or so......

Price of goods will go through the roof.

[Tombie]

Wonder what the range would be loaded 30T or so......

Price of goods will go through the roof.

Yep. [emoji41]

[DiscoMick]

It's certainly going to cause changes. I think they're designed to operate between depots. Roll in, drop trailer, plug in and another truck picks up the trailer and moves out. Anyway, they'll make it work.

[Tombie]

It's certainly going to cause changes. I think they're designed to operate between depots. Roll in, drop trailer, plug in and another truck picks up the trailer and moves out. Anyway, they'll make it work.

And by then you and I will be dead so wont see the enormous additonal costs piled onto goods.

This is farsical at this point in time, knowing several in the distribution industry and having been a part of it - its so cut throat - no chance of the fleets becoming this massively expensive to operate.

[Homestar]

Wonder what the range would be loaded 30T or so......

Price of goods will go through the roof.

Forget 30 tonne - they'll need to be able to tow a B double at 64 tonne for 1000KM to become remotely viable here. And as Tombie mentioned, who's going to cough up for this when there is barely a dollar to be made in the industry already.

[Homestar]

Last time I checked transport produced about 15% of Australia's emissions.

Emission sources | Australia State of the Environment Report (https://soe.environment.gov.au/theme/climate/topic/emission-sources#Emission_sources)

Anything that isn't nearly 10 years old before DPF's and Ad Blue? On Highway Road Freight Emissions are way down in the last 5 years.

As should car emissions with all these new fangled EV's on the road everywhere you keep speaking of. [bigwhistle]

[PhilipA]

All those bloody old garbage trucks taking garbage to queensland from NSW could not be helping.

It used to be 1000 a week , but I don't know what it is now that Qld has put a modest fee on dropping the garbage, but I still seem to see a lot of old dumpers on the M1. A lot look like grain trucks with a small trapdoor in the back , but there isn't that much grain on the east coast.

Regards PhilipA

[DiscoMick]

Forget 30 tonne - they'll need to be able to tow a B double at 64 tonne for 1000KM to become remotely viable here. And as Tombie mentioned, who's going to cough up for this when there is barely a dollar to be made in the industry already.There will be big fuel savings though.
It's certainly going to be disruptive.
Some places in Europe etc are already moving to ban diesel vehicles. Eventually only EVs will be allowed in.
Payload could be an issue though. The number of batteries needed to tow a full load could take up a lot of the payload.
Tesla isn't the only company working on EV trucks though. It will be interesting to see how they solve it.

[scarry]

"There will be big fuel savings though."

Maybe, at what cost?Costs and inconvenience that businesses and the public don't want .

"It's certainly going to be disruptive"

Sure is,thats why its such a long way off,until technology catches up.At the moment its way to disruptive.

"Some places in Europe etc are already moving to ban diesel vehicles.

Hasn't been done,probably never will.Some have banned diesels that don't comply with the latest emission rules,which is sort of sensible,not just a blanket ban on all of them.It will take a very game politician to ban all diesels.There are a few harping on about it,wanting it to happen in 20yrs.Thats alright for them,they will be long gone.And many are only saying it to try and look good,and keep on the side of some voters.Actually doing it is a different thing.

[DiscoMick]

London is moving to Euro VI low emissions regulations from October and trucks which fail to comply can be charged up to 300 pounds per visit, so that's a pretty big incentive to go clean.

Changes to the LEZ - Transport for London (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone/changes-to-the-lez)

[goingbush]

Incase you missed it UK has bought the ban of fossil fuels forward by 5 years to 2035 , that includes Petrol diesel & Hybrids .

Petrol and diesel ban: UK gives car industry 15 years to ditch fossil fuels - CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/04/business/petrol-and-diesel-ban-uk/index.html)

[DiscoMick]

It's going to be a huge disruption.
This is a ban on sales of new petrol and diesel vehicles, so presumably existing vehicles will still be able to remain in use until they are scrapped.
It could smash the value of used petrol and diesel vehicles.
It's interesting they are including hybrids in this ban.
JLR faces a huge challenge to convert it's range of vehicles to EVs by 2035. Can it afford the massive investment required?
Will JLR be forced to marge with another car manufacturer with EV skills to survive? There are already rumours about Peugeot.

[Eevo]

the horse n cart died out without being banned.

why do we need to ban ICE?

[DiscoMick]

Because horse **** didn't threaten to cause a bushfire emergency.

[Ferret]

Because horse **** didn't threaten to cause a bushfire emergency.

If you think ICE's caused a bushfire emergency here in Australia why are you still driving your ICE?

[W&KO]

If you think ICE's caused a bushfire emergency here in Australia why are you still driving your ICE?

I think DM is the BR.......of EV and Climate Change and Politics.

Be good if we got a bit of relief....

[JDNSW]

JLR is already building electric cars, so presumably they have at least some of the necessary technology.

The issue is more likely to be if the change is going to happen while they are still paying for investment that is no longer useful. I don't know how they are situated in that regard.

Apart from engines and gesrboxes, most of the rest of their expenditure is building the structure and running gear, or is bought in. Many of their engines are bought in, and I think a lot of their gearboxes - so those suppliers are going to be the ones with real problems. The equipment used to make the structure and running gear can also be used for EVs, but they may have to take losses on design work and tooling.

They have said that all their future designs from now will have electric versions.

[Homestar]

It's going to be a huge disruption.
This is a ban on sales of new petrol and diesel vehicles, so presumably existing vehicles will still be able to remain in use until they are scrapped.
It could smash the value of used petrol and diesel vehicles.
It's interesting they are including hybrids in this ban.
JLR faces a huge challenge to convert it's range of vehicles to EVs by 2035. Can it afford the massive investment required?
Will JLR be forced to marge with another car manufacturer with EV skills to survive? There are already rumours about Peugeot.

Could increase the value of used ICE vehicles to be honest.

[scarry]

It's going to be a huge disruption.

Thats why it will never happen.

[goingbush]

Thats why it will never happen.

How much do you want to put on that ?

[goingbush]

Could increase the value of used ICE vehicles to be honest.

Yes it could, but I don't think it will, Lots of scenarios could play out. Once people understand ICE cars are no longer going to be made they will want to get into EV whilst their ICE car still has some value. The market will be flooded with them.

Though the market will be full of cheap crude I think Petrol and diesel will be taxed even more as a disincentive to keep using it.

The other option is converting your Petrol car to NH3 or run on straight Hydrogen, or wood gas if you can avoid the EPA. ... Diesels have no future at all .

[manic]

Diesels have no future at all .

It really did flip at diesel gate didn't it. Petrol was the villain for Co2 emissions, biodiesel was looking like it could reduce particulate matter and NO2 , and get closer to carbon neutral. But even bioDiesel probably won't bounce diesel back from the gate scandal.... I can't see a future for Diesel in populated areas.

Petrol for passenger cars will no doubt go too. Biofuels might serve for commercial use but unlikely at the servo. It would be a brave move to ban combustion outside of cities when current lithium battery EVs are a massive downgrade for interstate travel!

I'm currently electric around town, and diesel on tow trips out of the city. I can't improve on that unless something better than lithium comes along. 100kwh 700kg battery packs just to carry passengers in a light vehicle is a joke. Especially when you have to slam the life out of them with 'superchargers' just to try and keep your road trip on a reasonable schedule .

There has to be a better way. Perhaps a leap in battery tech, but until then Hybrid battery/hydrogen and battery/biofuel could do the distance.

So perhaps the future could bring cars that are forced to run in zero emission only mode when inside a city limit, but able to switch to higher energy density fuels when outside city boundaries.

[ozscott]

Incase you missed it UK has bought the ban of fossil fuels forward by 5 years to 2035 , that includes Petrol diesel & Hybrids .

Petrol and diesel ban: UK gives car industry 15 years to ditch fossil fuels - CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/04/business/petrol-and-diesel-ban-uk/index.html)So those that own diesel vehicles in Australia will still have access to diesel, cheaply, for At least for a couple of decades or not longer.

Cheers

[JDNSW]

Diesel fuel is likely to be around for a long time for road haulage, but also for earthmoving, agricultural and other applications.

Just to take one example of where EVs have nothing even remotely on the horizon. We have had throughout NSW and eastern Victoria for the last couple of months thousands of fire units, often operating close to 24 hours non-stop, with only an hour or two a day for refuelling. And operating in an area with no electricity infrastructure for weeks at a time. And required at times to travel long distances and arriving ready to operate, with only minutes to refuel along the way.

Similar thoughts apply to all military vehicles.

I see no prospect of this sort of vehicle being replaced by EVs, or for that matter changing to hydrogen. I can't say it will never happen, but I don't see it happening in the next twenty years at least.

[ozscott]

Yes from a purely personal viewpoint I have recently purchased a modern diesel and like the idea of holding onto it for 15 to 20 years. And the truth is there will be many diesels sold over the next 15 years plus in Australia and diesel will be cheap enough for many years more. By then battery tech and other tech will be so good that even long range touring in Oz will easily happen with EV.

Cheers

[scarry]

How much do you want to put on that ?

My left nut if you want.[bighmmm]

Its pretty easy to see its just another politician grabbing votes,feathering his own nest,and he won't be around in 15yrs time anyway.

Sure we have to move forward,but in a sensible way.

The reality is EV's are a major inconvenience for some,whether technology will change to make them more suitable for many,who knows.

There has also been no massive advancement in EV technology in the last year or so.

Some company's have said they have this and that,but don't have anything in the market place,in fact in Aus, the biggest new vehicle vehicle sellers are utes,and there isn't even a hybrid model available,yet alone an EV in the range,they are years away.

For others they may suit,and will probably use them,which will be great.

To go from a UK car market that has sales of around 2%Ev to 100% EV over 15 yrs,in reality, will be virtually impossible.

Then there will be the commercial vehicle market,heavy vehicle market,earthmoving equipment,that will no doubt continue with ICE's,so the fuel will still be available.Diesel will not just disappear.

And,Evo,going from horse and cart to ICE was a massive advancement in convenience,where going from ICE to EV is the opposite for many,while EV's are in their current form.

Anyway,we will have to wait and see,a lot can happen,and no doubt will over 15 yrs.

[goingbush]

Paul , they said the same at turn of the Twentieth Century, Horse & Buggies were virtually replaced with Motor Cars in 10-15 years & they had little Petrol station infrastructure . History repeats itself & change is implemented a lot faster now days.

The EV Transition Could Mirror The Horse To Model T Transition | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/07/ev-transition-mirror-horse-model-t-transition/)

[PhilipA]

Gee the EV proponents are working themselves into a lather these days.
first I think the ban in UK will not include PHEVs so there will still lots of ICE cars around. Second with the exception of Tesla Model 3 , buyers are voting with their feet and sales of EVs declined last year by 8%.

Third it is fancifulto think that ICE cars will not be produced. What about India, Africa, South America, Australia, China , and even the USA.
Europe is Europe and has a unique set of circumstances with short distances and crowded cities .
The UK fits 26 times into Australia and 6 times into Queensland. It is tiny.

The EV time may be coming but not as quickly as the proponents dream of.
for example in WW 2 the German army was mostly horse driven and that was 40 years after the invention of ICE cars.
I was thinking a few days ago what happened to autonomous trucks driving in close convoy along the highways by now.lol Been a bit of a reality check there.

regards
PhilipA